Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:01:00] Jamila Daley: Um, so welcome. My name is Jamila, um, and oh, just said it. But welcome to Mastering Out of Donor Engagement. This is about captivating our donors through strategic touchpoints and creating those lasting connections that we need in order to continue to engage them and for them to, um, really, really just love us and what we do.

[00:01:26] Jamila Daley: Okay. Now let’s see if I can, okay. This is easy. Oh. This is very small. I apologize. I’ve just downloaded, um, everything into PowerPoint and it seems to have taken things a little bit smaller. But basically what I am, um, wanting you to do is pop your name in the chat, your charity name in the chat if you can, um, your charity type and your location.

[00:01:53] Jamila Daley: And feel free throughout this to be popping. Uh, questions in the chat box, um, throughout this, so that hopefully at the end I’ll have enough time to answer some of your questions. Okay. So let’s see if the next slide is any better. Okay, so that is super. So what we’re gonna be covering today is the importance of donor engagement.

[00:02:17] Jamila Daley: Not only that. The, uh, key touch points in your donor engagement journey? Um, well, it’s getting smaller and smaller. The simple, um, simple donor communication strategies that I have for you. Uh oh wow. Smaller again, storytelling for emotional connection. And implementation of effective stewardship and recognition strategies.

[00:02:43] Jamila Daley: Uh, I think guys what I’m gonna do though is so that everybody has this, the slides for them is I’m gonna send, um, through to the team a version of the slides that are ever slightly readable. ’cause the font is significantly bigger on the version I have. Okay. Apologies for that. So just a little bit about me.

[00:03:01] Jamila Daley: So, um, I’m not gonna go this far back, but this is me about two or three. Um, and yeah, my name’s Jamila Jamila Daly, and I’m the, um, founder of a consultancy, a fundraising consultancy called Tab People. Now, I’ve included a Christmas tree and the check because my earliest memory. Memory of charity, of fundraising, of giving was sitting at my mother’s feet at Christmas while she wrote out checks to her, um, her chosen charities that she, you know, I guess back in the day they sent out a lot more, um, donor.

[00:03:40] Jamila Daley: Engagement to, well, we didn’t have GDPR, so lots of more, um, what you call it, cold mail. Um, but she keeps on that. She liked and she’d write out checks and I just remember so vividly sitting and watching her do that and thinking it was an amazing thing, not really knowing what charity was. Um, and yeah, that was, I guess, the beginning of my journey into fundraising and charity.

[00:04:04] Jamila Daley: Um, I just didn’t know at.

[00:04:09] Jamila Daley: Okay, so for us, the importance of donor engagement, I’m just gonna leap straight in. Um, your engagement of your donors is, oh my gosh, it’s the cornerstone of your strategy. Um, and. What can I say? It’s about building strong relationships. It’s about engaging, it’s about building loyalty. It’s about, um, them investing in us and us investing in them.

[00:04:41] Jamila Daley: Um, and it is crucial. It is absolutely crucial. Um, the reasons for this are. Increased donor retention. So engaged donors are more likely to give us more money, um, remain, uh, committed, um, and foster that strong connection. When I, uh, one of the things I think a lot of organizations may be experiencing, especially at this time, um, during post covid, um, cost of living crisis is.

[00:05:13] Jamila Daley: Significant donor attrition or reduction in, um, the amount of, um, donations they’re receiving. Um, but one of the ways we can work, not work against this, but one of the things that we can do to increase this is to engage our donors, really get to know them, really let them get to know us. It will help us stabilize our donor base and our donor income.

[00:05:41] Jamila Daley: Another thing is our giving levels. Um, engaged donors tend over time, especially when asked, and that’s really important, especially when asked. I’ll say that again. Um, increase their giving levels to their charities. Advocacy, now it’s a big word, but really. Engaged. Um, donors advocate for the charities they tell their friends.

[00:06:06] Jamila Daley: Um, one of the charities that I worked with calls it gossiping their mission, their, their donors gossip, their mission. They tell their friends, they tell their families. They, um, tell their colleagues at work. They put it out to the professional networks, which for us, um, in the charity side means that we are reaching new people, we’re expanding our reach.

[00:06:29] Jamila Daley: Attracting new supporters that may be through whatever reason, whatever we’re doing in our marketing, in our outreach, we would never reach anyway, but we’re doing them through our engaged owners. Now, this is part of the same thing, but the UK giving report from this year, 2024. Says that donors tend to, uh, find out about charities that they support through their own experience, um, and, um, via their friends and families.

[00:06:58] Jamila Daley: And what that means is, um, hospices that have, um, had family members, um, that go through the, have massive amounts of donor loyalty, um, occurring in their.

[00:07:15] Jamila Daley: What’s the word I’m looking for? Like in their donor backgrounds? Um, in the donor database. I, I, I hate using that phrase, but they have them in their ecosystem. They’re part of their family. Okay. So.

[00:07:32] Jamila Daley: Lastly, it’s that lasting impact. It’s that final gift. Engaged donors are the ones who are more likely to leave a gift in their will for you, which is, yes, it’s the last gift they’re ever gonna give you. It’s probably gonna be the most significant. Um. That you, um, have, I’m sorry, I keep on getting distracted by the chat.

[00:07:56] Jamila Daley: I keep on seeing things moving, so I keep on looking to see if there’s a question. Um, but I think Tash is on that. So, um, I will leave that to Tash. Okay. Um, but what I really wanna just really drive home is how engagement, that donor engagement really plays a vital role in fostering that long-term support and loyalty that we need to survive.

[00:08:21] Jamila Daley: Um, and I’ve seen it in so many places, whether I, I, I did hear, um. Tail end of the last panel that Thankathon. Um, I’ve been experiencing quite a few of those recently and also talking to people about thanking quite a lot. And that is just such a powerful, actually powerful two-way, um, way of thanking and engaging, um, your donors.

[00:08:47] Jamila Daley: Um, I actually hear a lot more from the members of staff who just loved how it made them feel. Being able to thank somebody and doing over the phone and hearing that smile across the. Just amazing. Okay, so. One other thing we wanna do when we’re engaging our donors is communicate about what our donors, our audiences, care about, not just our own internal agenda.

[00:09:13] Jamila Daley: Um, we’ve all seen these examples where people are telling us, um. You know, what they’ve done, uh, how they’ve, um, the new photocopier they’ve got and how the donations have helped, you know, ease whatever it is administratively in the background. That’s all well and good, but is that really what our donors wanna hear about or do they wanna hear about what, um, has happened for their beneficiaries or in the initiatives that the organization has Now, this is really whistle stop, so I hope you’re taking notes, although I guess you’re recording this, so there’s opportunities to go back.

[00:09:48] Jamila Daley: So some of those donor touchpoints include, actually, let’s go back. What is a donor touchpoint? I don’t want to teach anybody to, um, things that they already know, but I feel like just in case there are a few people out there, um, that don’t know what a donor touchpoint is. It’s basically an opportunity, a connection between you and I.

[00:10:10] Jamila Daley: Me the charity, you, the donor, um, it’s, um, an opportunity for me to share information or an opportunity for you to share information. Um, so, and with your donor, that that information would be how much they wanna give you, what their name is, their email address, where they live. Um, for us, it’d be our campaigns, what we stand for, our mission, our vision, um, how much money we need to keep this going so that.

[00:10:38] Jamila Daley: We can help them, our donors achieve what they wanna achieve or see us achieve. And donor touchpoint can occur at any point in our donor journey. So from the time they first hear about us to their first donation, to through their second donation, we hope, um, through, um, to their. Oh, what do you call it?

[00:11:01] Jamila Daley: Becoming maybe a long term or regular donor or making a significant gift? Not necessarily that last time gift. Um, so as I said, it can occur at any point during donation, so before, during a donation or after a donation. And it can be, um, for example, information, our website, information on our social media via our newsletter.

[00:11:25] Jamila Daley: Um. If we have a print adverts or if we do posts, um, if any of our members of staff are lucky enough to be featured in media, um, mainstream media, those all don’t have touchpoints. And they’re important because they can influence people’s perceptions of your charity. Um, you have charities who have that.

[00:11:53] Jamila Daley: Look of being bootstrapped. Um, as in they always look like they’re quite small. And I’m trying to think of one that I’ve worked with recently, quite small. And, um, maybe just about to grow, but not quite there. Um, and that may not, that’s just perception. That may not be their reality. Um, I’ve worked with organizations that have got great, uh, branding and, um.

[00:12:19] Jamila Daley: Like comms because maybe that’s where their CEO or significant part of the team is working with, um, or coming from. But they’re actually a small charity. There’s two or three people in need. It’s just, it’s part of their skillset. Um, and I. So I’ve mentioned website as part of one of your, um, touchpoint. I think I’ve mentioned, um, your campaign as a touchpoint.

[00:12:43] Jamila Daley: Um, actually any donors advocating for you is a touchpoint. Um, any, anywhere that they see your name or make a connection to you is a touchpoint. Asking them for a donation that’s a touch point. Okay. So we can. Specifically with our touch points, we can motivate donors to make initial donations. So, um, I was recently working with, um, a small organization and they’ve never made, um, an ask before.

[00:13:21] Jamila Daley: Um, they have several projects. They had over 6,000 people on their, um, email and subscription list. Regularly, they had their own forum, so regularly engaging in their own form, but they never asked them for money before. Um, and so that, that, that was a touch point. Like we, we put together something that would, we could make an ask from, but we’d also done a lot of work as an organization to let them know what, what the need was, why they should get involved, why they should be interested, which motivated them.

[00:13:57] Jamila Daley: Motivated them to then make that initial donation. Off their first campaign. It was a beautiful site. It, I’m gonna be honest, everybody in the team was very, very nervous because they hadn’t done it before. Now, um, we can also try some of those touch points. Also, encourage, um. Those repeat donations, which really and truly as, um, somebody that’s a specialist in individual giving, that’s what I want.

[00:14:29] Jamila Daley: I, I, I would rather have somebody giving me 25 pounds a month, month in months out for a couple of years, ideally than somebody giving me a hundred pounds and me having to try to find, um, but being encouraged to give repeat donations. Um. So, um, maybe it’s how we ask. So on our donation form where we have the one-off gift tab or the, um, regular giving tab, and maybe they have different amounts so people can have a look.

[00:15:03] Jamila Daley: Um, maybe we also would talk about, um, or featured donors who want, who give us regularly and what that’s meant. It’s another way of banking those donors, but it’s also a way of letting other donors know that it’s an option for them. Um, let’s see. No, did it hit? Yeah. Okay. So, um, one of the things we also wanna do in, in our touch points is enhance our donor experience.

[00:15:32] Jamila Daley: So a lot of donation forms stop at things like just asking, um, for the name. Email address, address, maybe a contact telephone number, um, the amount they want to donate. Obviously the donation details, but other, there are other bits of information that we can gather to help us enhance their donor experience.

[00:15:56] Jamila Daley: So, for example, we could be asking, you know, like, do they prefer, actually, it’s pretty much a standard now, but asking if, um, people wanna receive information by email or by post or, um. SMS or WhatsApp. I’ve seen, I’m seeing WhatsApp groups, um, more regularly are being set up. So business WhatsApp groups, so basically where you can send out information, um, but that it’s not like a channel that everybody engaged in.

[00:16:26] Jamila Daley: It can chat. Probably just be admin so they can send out information and make sure that they’re, um, it’s, well, it’s a bit like a newsletter where everyone, we can make sure everyone’s receiving the information that we need them to receive. Um, and it’s also about just understanding through that their preferences, their needs so that we can improve their stewardship and enhance their donor experience.

[00:16:56] Jamila Daley: Um, I’ve personally found that, um, I’ve worked with. Uh, a group where they needed to do a bit of capital work. It was a, it a, it was a small piece of capital work. It was worth about 21,000 pounds. And they put up pictures and let everybody know about the scaffolding and why the scaffolding was up. ’cause it was a building that needed the work.

[00:17:22] Jamila Daley: Um, and

[00:17:26] Jamila Daley: three days, yeah, three days later, they received the check. So the person broke the check almost as, as soon as they received the email. Um, when we checked on our database, the, um, donor was a regular donor, but not a significant amount. Not somebody that we could think would be able to just turn up and sign a check and hand in a check within 24 hours.

[00:17:53] Jamila Daley: So again, you know, these touch points help us understand. Enhance our relationship with them so that when we make an ask or when we don’t have an ask, they are listening. They are ready to respond when we make an ask, if that’s what we’re doing, they’re ready to get involved. Okay. So I wanted to keep this quite simple because we do have only a little bit of time.

[00:18:26] Jamila Daley: Today. Well, you know, I could talk all day, but we only have a little bit of time. So a simple donor communication strategy for you all. Okay, so I hope you’ve heard this before, but I’m gonna say it again. Personalized engagement. Now I would describe personalized as making sure you’re using the person’s name.

[00:18:46] Jamila Daley: If they, um, donated to a campaign. You are, um. The name of that campaign you are mentioning how much they gave and actually how much, how thankful you’re, um, if there are already some outlines of what the outputs are, what you think the impact is, letting them know again, what those things are. It’s not about, um, and it can be automated, but still feel personalized.

[00:19:16] Jamila Daley: Um, it’s not about a bespoke letter that talks, um, um, about, um, how they came or everything you know about them and how they’ve come to support your charity. It’s, it’s just a little bit of information that makes it feel like they’re seen. They’re heard that they’re known to you, that you love them, um, and I would hope you would love them ’cause they’re their donors.

[00:19:38] Jamila Daley: So you are their, your lifeblood. It’s also about transparent reporting. So I’ve experienced in this, in a lot of areas, in a lot of charities where. They don’t say anything to anybody. So they ask you for money and then you don’t hear anything back until maybe their annual report, maybe their impact report.

[00:19:59] Jamila Daley: There’s no, like if I, if a, say for example, you’re an international charity and you’ve asked for money to build toilets, um, or a series of toilets, uh, in another country. I would say that, you know, you’d report each time a toilet’s been completed or started, you’d report back to your donor saying, we started the build, we finished the build.

[00:20:24] Jamila Daley: You know, like transparent reporting. We wanna make sure that people are informed about the progress, the outcomes of the initiatives, not just something just at the end, little and often. Um, this transparency helps us build trust and reassures our donors that their, their contributions are. Part are making a tangible difference.

[00:20:46] Jamila Daley: Um, yeah. Okay.

[00:20:53] Jamila Daley: Okay. So I love this one. Um, and I earned and odd about using the word exclusive, but recognition and attentive. And the reason I’ve used the word exclusive is ’cause I’m. For our long term, um, donors. Now, I’m not caveating that to, um, the size of donation because I have worked with an organization where a lady was giving, I think a month, um, but she did so for 30 years.

[00:21:22] Jamila Daley: So actually the lifetime value of her donation was, um, wow. Oh, I overrun a bit. Lifetime donation was about 30,000. Wasn’t as much as um, you know, others, but it was good. Okay. Feedback loops. Okay, so I love this feedback loop. So it is, we wanna understand their donor of motivations, but we wanna understand their concerns and expectations.

[00:21:54] Jamila Daley: So to do that, we ask, we thank, we report, we repeat. I would add in that, in that virtuous cycle, when we’re ask, you know, before we report or repeat, we ask them what they thought. So ask thank report, repeat, and then ask them a little bit more. Ask for some money, thank report, repeat, so on, so forth. Okay.

[00:22:21] Jamila Daley: Okay, so, oops, we’ve skipped a slide there, but. Storytelling, that emotional connection. We wanna interview people. We don’t want surveys, we don’t want, um, what should we call ’em? Uh, like fill in a form. We wanna interview them, find out what their stories are, because when we’re writing it, somebody else is not gonna get that emotional connection unless we can put it on the page.

[00:22:49] Jamila Daley: We wanna use simple language and short sentences. It’s an amazing fact. But in the uk, the National Reading Age is 10 years, so people aren’t stupid, not by any means, but if they need a dictionary to understand what you’re talking about, what your website says, what your campaign says, they’re not gonna engage with you.

[00:23:06] Jamila Daley: They’re not going to, uh. What’s the word? Give, use vivid stories and sensory descriptions to transport your donors and supporters into the situation so they can understand it. They can close their eyes and see it. Okay. Incorporate things that are relatable and resonate with your donor experiences and mission.

[00:23:28] Jamila Daley: Now this can be quite intangible, but I remember, um, a couple of stories. I can’t go into details ’cause you it’s personal stories, but I remember the fact that they kept on referring to the blue big pen being held in the hand and I couldn’t understand why they kept on referring to it and they explained because.

[00:23:45] Jamila Daley: With the story. There were lots of intangibles, lots of things that weren’t relatable, but one thing they, they, everybody had always used and kind of understood was this blue big pen. So it was something really small and minded, but I could relate, I could understand what that was. It was strange. It was interesting, it was fun.

[00:24:03] Jamila Daley: Um, and infuse emotion, highlighting the impact and the significance that they’ve had on your course. I’ve said this before and I wanted to include it. It’s not a written a mistake. Communicate about your audiences, what your audiences care about, not just what your your agenda is. Okay, so last part. I’m almost there.

[00:24:31] Jamila Daley: So these are some of the simple things I think you need to do. So promptly acknowledge and thank your donors for their donation, no matter the size. So if it’s email, if it’s a letter, you can decide what that thank and acknowledgement looks like, depending on size or what you do as an organization. But that thanking it goes a long way.

[00:24:57] Jamila Daley: Like I’ve said before, share the impact and the updates that illustrate how their donations are making a difference. Donors wanna see tangible results. Oh, I like the, so I’ve just seen the scrolling pop the questions in the chat. Oops. Yeah, please do. Um, recognize donor milestones. So annual milestones. So when that 12 gift for your regular, um, donor comes in, so that 12 once a month, that’s a year.

[00:25:24] Jamila Daley: Celebrate it, send ’em an email. I don’t know. Send ’em a postcard saying that they’re one year. You can think of other things. 10 years, um, when they’ve, um, donated a thousand pounds or 5,000 pounds. That’s, that’s a milestone. Recognize it. Celebrate it. Offer exclusive opportunities for deeper engagement. I love opportunities for volunteer roles.

[00:25:46] Jamila Daley: Now, not every organization can do that, but it’s a great way to do that. Another one is virtual events, where they get to sit around like a round table with the CEO and find out a bit more, ask questions. They get to feel engaged. They get to see seen. They get to invest in you, and you get to hear what they think.

[00:26:05] Jamila Daley: Okay? Constantly communicate and cultivate. So it can be little things like just letting, like I said, little updates. Um, especially during periods where you are not asking them for a donation, where you’re not asking them for no money. Like I said, stewardship builds don, you know, builds trust, builds loyalty over time.

[00:26:26] Jamila Daley: Okay, so these are my top tips. Keep track of what you want to achieve. Get your leaders and your colleagues to buy in, especially as they can make or break your donor engagement strategy. Get your, um, tailor your key messages to your different donor groups. There is nothing worse than re sending an email to somebody that knows 10,000 pounds, asking them to consider doing, doing a, uh, like a 10 pounds a month donation.

[00:26:50] Jamila Daley: That’s not the right message. Share your impact and show how they are making a difference. And if you doubt and if you, um, if you doubt, thank, thank, and then thank again. I’m gonna skip this one, but I’m gonna include it in the slides ’cause I think I wanna get to the questions. So any questions? Um, looks like there has a question.

[00:27:16] Natasha Evans: Yes. We’ve got some questions in the chat. Would you like me to read them out for you? 

[00:27:23] Jamila Daley: Yes, please. 

[00:27:23] Natasha Evans: Because I 

[00:27:23] Jamila Daley: can’t see 

[00:27:24] Natasha Evans: them. No problem at all. Um, so there’s one interesting one, which I’ve, I’ve heard this debate before, so I’m really keen to get your thoughts on it. Does celebrating donor milestones cause the donor to drop off?

[00:27:38] Natasha Evans: There is some evidence to suggest that it can 

[00:27:42] Jamila Daley: Yes and no. So for example, if you haven’t been doing anything to engage them and they’ve completely forgotten that they even donate, then yeah, they might think, oh, why am I giving them money? But if they’ve known that they’re being donated, you know, they’ve been donated to, you’ve engaged ’em, they’ve told you, you told them so many different ways of how they have made a difference.

[00:28:04] Jamila Daley: Mm-hmm. Then that actually gonna. Make a difference and keep the market going. And then maybe the next communication I may have is, would you like to increase your donation by 10% this year? You know, or something like that. But yeah, it’s two sides of a different kind. But there is, it is based on, I think, what we’ve done with them, not necessarily the, the milestone itself.

[00:28:25] Natasha Evans: That’s brilliant. I absolutely love that. I am going to rewatch this and take note for note. So if that question comes up again for me, I can literally, you’ve got,

[00:28:42] Natasha Evans: I was trying to leave enough time for questions. Well, I think we probably have time for maybe one more. Um, so there’s a question, which is when you mentioned the personalized gift acknowledgement. Is this only in the thank you after the gift or the journey to follow? 

[00:29:01] Multiple Speakers: Ooh, I like 

[00:29:02] Jamila Daley: that one. 

[00:29:03] Natasha Evans: So 

[00:29:04] Jamila Daley: personally, I owe no.

[00:29:07] Jamila Daley: Okay. I would say after the gift, because then if somebody thinks, oh, why they spending money on thanking me? Well, you’ve just given us money and we wanna make sure you feel special. But if they come down the line and say, Ooh. You know, like, I don’t know, six months later, we sent ’em a thank you gift. They’d be like, why are they spending money on this?

[00:29:28] Jamila Daley: I haven’t given them any money recently. Mm. Like, are they, do they have that much money? But, and it doesn’t have to be like, it can be digital. It can be, um, yeah, it can be digital. It doesn’t have to be a physical product, especially with the cost of postage these days. Um, it, it can be something like that.

[00:29:52] Jamila Daley: I cards. 

[00:29:54] Natasha Evans: Uh, yeah, me too. I actually got one myself. I loved it. Yeah, 

[00:29:58] Multiple Speakers: I have as well. I watched times. I was so disappointed when the working. 

[00:30:04] Natasha Evans: You expired too much. You pressed it too much. Watched it back. 

[00:30:08] Multiple Speakers: Yeah. 

[00:30:09] Natasha Evans: Oh, brilliant. Yeah, so shout out for.

[00:30:15] Jamila Daley: Platform. Absolute. 

[00:30:17] Multiple Speakers: Get any affiliates on this? 

[00:30:20] Natasha Evans: Um, is there time for one more question? I think let’s go for it because I really wanna, um, read out another one. Um, so thank you so much for this. It has been super interesting to hear from you about this. I have a quick question. This is from Lucy about how you would determine when having non donation related touchpoint in a stewardship journey that this is classed as marketing slash cross-selling.

[00:30:46] Natasha Evans: So I’ll take, I’ll give you a moment to digest the question. Okay. You can see that on your screen. 

[00:30:52] Jamila Daley: So I wouldn’t non donation related. So. It is not as a fundraiser. It’s not that I think everything is donation related, although I feel like I am very money motivated as a fundraiser. But I do think that everything, if we look at what business does, everything they do helps us to get to a sale.

[00:31:19] Multiple Speakers: Even if 

[00:31:20] Jamila Daley: it’s not like, buy my product, buy my product, buy my product, it’s like my product is better than this product. It’s, you get this, um, it’s, it’s, it’s the VIP of this or this person is wearing it. Or you know, like, so some of that’s social selling. There’s lots of things that aren’t necessarily asking you for a donation, but they are gearing you up so that when that ask comes it.

[00:31:47] Jamila Daley: You are more likely to make the donation. I hope, Lucy, that I’ve answered your question, but that’s how I’ve understood it. You can tell.

[00:31:59] Natasha Evans: Rather than having the asking for, asking for money, saying thank you, asking for money, saying thank you, you are peppering that experience with those almost like buffer moments to build up that loyalty, that trust, that commitment again, so that when you do make the ask, they’re like, yeah, of course.

[00:32:24] Jamila Daley: They’re gonna tell their friends, they’re gonna follow it. It on you’ll, you’ll find out about people you didn’t even know about. Like I’ve said, like I’ve had that before where they said, oh yeah, I’ve worked with an organization where they’re based in Essex, in a small mm-hmm. Area, Essex. And their like, their work is there.

[00:32:42] Jamila Daley: They don’t do any other work. The donation came in from Canada because they knew somebody who knew somebody who volunteered, who had a child that. And they knew we had a campaign like I would never have, like our campaign would never have reached them without us building up that loyalty, having those touch points and somebody saying, oh.

[00:33:04] Jamila Daley: Um, thankfully we also had a donation platform that accepted Canadian dots. 

[00:33:08] Natasha Evans: Hey, you’re ready and waiting to accept the donations. I love it. Yeah. 

[00:33:18] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little ly or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:33:30] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:00:59] Simon Scriver: Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another special episode of the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. My name is Simon Scriver. I am one of the co-founders of Fundraising Everywhere and delighted to be your host again today. Uh, and I have a super special guest there. I know I say that every, every episode. Um, but we are very excited because it’s birthday season.

[00:01:18] Simon Scriver: It is just giving’s 25th birthday, and you know how much we love just giving. So what we have done, if we, we have the wonderful Pascale Harvie, the president and general manager, just giving onto the podcast. I’m Pascale, you’ve been very good to make some time for us. You must be very busy. How are you? 

[00:01:36] Pascale Harvie: Uh, thanks for having me Simon.

[00:01:38] Pascale Harvie: It’s a pleasure. I’m good. I’m very excited as well. I’m excited to share the, some of the research that we’ve been doing and just overall, I think the team’s just really proud of what we’ve been able to achieve. 

[00:01:50] Simon Scriver: It’s been incredible and it’s been, I mean, just giving has become part of the lexicon, isn’t it?

[00:01:57] Simon Scriver: Like it’s a household name in turn. I mean, it’s almost a verb. And, and, and what you’ve achieved over the last five years, 25 years have been so impressive. But before we, before we get into it, I do want to, I have a little, a little virtual birthday cake for you, Pascale, and it’s not AI generated. I have respected the creative commons.

[00:02:16] Simon Scriver: This is, uh, this is a rightly attributed birthday cake to you, so I wanna say happy birthday, Pascale. 

[00:02:21] Pascale Harvie: Oh, I’m impressed. Thank you. Is that getting delivered to my front door, Simon? Because it, 

[00:02:25] Simon Scriver: well, I, I actually have, I have an extra special one for you. ’cause when I was looking for this, I found this weird cake.

[00:02:31] Simon Scriver: And I dunno what you, I dunno, if you know what this is. It’s a lace, it’s a lace monitor cake, birthday cake. Do you know what a lace monitor is? It’s, it’s from your neck of the woods. 

[00:02:41] Pascale Harvie: Um, you can have that one if you like. They’ll stick with the other one. 

[00:02:45] Simon Scriver: I thought that would make you feel at home. It’s a, it’s an eastern Australian, uh, and native lizard.

[00:02:50] Simon Scriver: Um, but, but Pascale, tell me, tell me a little bit about your history. How are you involved with just giving and, and what, maybe just a little bit about your journey to this point. 

[00:03:00] Pascale Harvie: Yeah. I have been, um, fortunate enough to be involved with just giving probably over the last five years. And prior to that, I, as you can tell from my accent.

[00:03:12] Pascale Harvie: Have come across from Australia. I was running a very similar business called Everyday Hero, uh, in the peer-to-peer space, uh, with the startup of Everyday Hero and working alongside of that and part of Blackboard for many years. And then with the acquisition of Just Giving came across to help steward and work along the wonderful team at Just Giving.

[00:03:35] Pascale Harvie: Prior to that, I actually worked in the not-for-profit world. I was fortunate enough, I worked with Oxfam. Corporate fundraising and then for a smaller organization called Child Wise, which looks after child sexual abuse and exploitation across Australia and Southeast Asia. Um, and I learn a lot in that journey.

[00:03:55] Pascale Harvie: Um, and I’m, I mean, look, I love the, I love the sector. I love the fact that we all turn up every day to help make the world a better place. And, um, it’s hopefully it’s what drives me and it’s what drives the team across just giving as well. And you, 

[00:04:12] Simon Scriver: and you’ve got such a wonderful team. I’m not just saying this, but our, my team or the fundraiser and every team are always raving about, um, how easy it is to deal with you and just the passion behind it.

[00:04:22] Simon Scriver: And, and from when I’ve seen you speak, I’ve, I’ve sensed that passion and, um, and the fact that you’re an, you’re an ex, well not an ex fundraiser, but you’re, you’re a fundraiser. Do you know, we wouldn’t let you on the podcast if you weren’t a fundraiser. So you, you’ve earned your, so, so, so 25 years is, yeah.

[00:04:41] Simon Scriver: I mean, it’s, it is kind of incredible because it’s, that’s before I started my career as a fundraiser. It’s before Facebook. It’s before YouTube. It’s before it’s. It’s kind of mad, isn’t it? Like, I mean, how were people sharing, sharing, just giving pages before Facebook? Do you know? Like were we, were we spelling it out for people and writing it on a piece of paper?

[00:05:03] Simon Scriver: It’s hard to picture. 

[00:05:05] Pascale Harvie: No, you know, 25 years ago, actually, when you think about it, is not that long ago. It was the start of 2000 and we did have phones. We might not have had a Apple iPhones, but we did have phones and we did have the com, the internet. I think overall, you know, like we are incredibly proud to have been supporting fundraisers and helping people raise money close to their heart, raising over 7 billion for charities and causes during the last 25 years.

[00:05:32] Pascale Harvie: And to sort of mark that amazing, the, the amazing people, the amazing fundraisers that we see every day. And we’ve seen over the years, we launched a report, which explores the last sort of 25 years of giving. As well as delving into giving today and predictions about the future of fundraising, uh, and what that could potentially look like, because as you said, it’s a, it’s fascinating when you look back over the last 25 years and you look at where we are today to wonder what that’s gonna look like in another 25 years.

[00:06:03] Simon Scriver: And, and the rapport you’ve released that, um, kind of reflects on the 25 years. And, and as always, just given a very transparent about kind of sharing. Data, information and, and really learnings. You know, I, I remember gonna conferences, uh, more than a decade ago, listening to just givings learnings shared, and, and you bring that back to the office to, to implement.

[00:06:24] Simon Scriver: So I’m really curious. But beyond that, huge 7 billion pounds raised figure. What are, what are the other, the kind of things that stood out for you in the report? What were the other kind of highlights that you were taking around to people you, yeah. 

[00:06:38] Pascale Harvie: I think, you know, overall, and I don’t think it comes as a surprise to anyone, but the UK has a really strong culture of generosity.

[00:06:46] Pascale Harvie: So over 82% of people said that they’ve done something charitable in the last year that could be volunteering, donating could be fundraising. It’s a, it’s a large amount when you think about it, and 35% of people plan to fundraise again this year. So I think for me it was just reminding of, you know, it was a good reminder for all of us that in general people are charitable and there is a really strong culture of generosity.

[00:07:15] Pascale Harvie: However, really surprising to me was that we found overall Gen Z in particular have a strong sense of responsibility to give back with. And you know, over a quarter of them said that they wanted to make a world, the world a better place. What’s really interesting in that is their, our fundraising or out donating fundraising, um, people of my generation, the elder generation.

[00:07:41] Pascale Harvie: Um, and by actually double, they are raising or donating, which is incredible. And they’re also influenced by celebrities, influencers, which I guess is, um, something that we should expect. And even politicians, interestingly, um, Christiana Ronaldo came out as, um, one of the celebrities that people who had inspired people the most to do good in the uk, followed by Sir David Attenborough, which perhaps won’t come a surprise to many.

[00:08:11] Pascale Harvie: I also think probably the younger generation, they potentially, to your earlier point, may be giving more because they’ve grown up in a world where online fundraising is the norm. They’ve used technology from the start, and that makes it easy for them to donate in just a few clicks or to set up a page in just a few clicks.

[00:08:31] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s been, it’s really interesting and, and I can hear you, your dog is chipping in with some key points there because I’ve probably about animal charities ’cause you haven’t highlighted that often, I think. Um, but, but that, that Gen Z point is, is really interesting. ’cause people like me who are aging rapidly, you know, many people kind of struggle to understand what’s happening a little bit with Gen Z.

[00:08:56] Simon Scriver: You know, even, even being online all the time. It’s moving very quick and it’s hard to keep up. How, how just giving, keep up with that multi-generation who are behaving very differently and the way technology is moving, how do you begin to even approach staying on top of it? 

[00:09:12] Pascale Harvie: Yeah, it’s um, it’s an interesting 

[00:09:15] Pascale Harvie: one.

[00:09:15] Pascale Harvie: I think we last year might have, I’ve lost track of time, but we, we released our first sort of integration of ai. Which was really about helping fundraisers write a personal story for their page, which we know helps people connect and understand their story better, which often leads to more donations. So the integration and making sure that you are looking around the corner as to what come, what’s coming and what and what technology we’ve got to help people on their journey, um, is really important.

[00:09:50] Pascale Harvie: Cryptocurrency. I tell you what, on top, the cryptocurrency is a huge opportunity for donation growth. Last year on the JG platform, we made it possible for people to donate via cryptocurrency. And two weeks ago we had our biggest donation ever of 75,000 that came through one go in cryptocurrency. 

[00:10:13] Simon Scriver: Wow. I 

[00:10:14] Pascale Harvie: know.

[00:10:15] Simon Scriver: And what, and, and I mean, you probably can’t. Or don’t know the story behind it, do you? No. Something, something’s happening out there, isn’t it? 

[00:10:22] Pascale Harvie: Yes. Absolutely. 

[00:10:26] Simon Scriver: Um, well, we’ll, we’ll get on, I, I’ll get onto the future a little bit ’cause I’m gonna get ask you to look into your crystal ball. But looking back over those past years as well, like I almost on a personal level, Pascale, what is, what stood out for you?

[00:10:39] Simon Scriver: What do you, what do you, if we did that? This is your Lifebook. Of just giving, what would be the big guests that came out, or the big moments that were highlighted? 

[00:10:49] Pascale Harvie: Yeah. You know, there are so many standout moments. The, yeah, I mean, I’m sure you remember the ice bucket challenge in 24, um, that really marked the start of viral fundraising campaigns and challenges.

[00:11:04] Pascale Harvie: So I think over 6 million pounds was raised for m and d related charities on just giving. Then obviously in 2020 when the world went a little bit crazy and we saw the world virtually come together amid Covid hyphen 19. Um, I think just looking purely at the NHS charities, I mean over 96 million pounds was raised for the N-H-N-H-S charities on just giving, and that doesn’t even count some of the, you know, the viral campaigns that were happening and people walking around their backyards.

[00:11:39] Pascale Harvie: Um. In the 2.6 challenge. There was just so many different virtual events that came together over that time. Actually feels like a lifetime ago, but at the same time, it feels like yesterday. 

[00:11:52] Simon Scriver: It do. Uh, do you know what, ’cause I mean, I’ll have to check the tape, but I think you said the ice bucket challenge was in 2024.

[00:11:59] Pascale Harvie: 2014. 

[00:12:00] Simon Scriver: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think we’re think, oh, sorry. 

[00:12:02] Pascale Harvie: I didn’t mean to say that. 20. No, I, I think 2014, I think it’s 

[00:12:06] Simon Scriver: funny because it was like, I was like, yeah, that was only a few years ago, but it’s like, oh, no way. That is like, well over 10 years ago now. 

[00:12:13] Pascale Harvie: Yeah. 2014. Apologies, Simon. 

[00:12:15] Simon Scriver: But it, it’s been a, it’s been amazing.

[00:12:17] Simon Scriver: ’cause yeah, those things that you kind of forget about those, like big culture moments around Covid back garden, walking around. Um, um, do you know the. Just giving has have almost been a little bit of a constant throughout that. Do you know like that almost under, not, I don’t wanna say under the radar ’cause you guys are very much there, but it’s like you’re, the infrastructure that was there ready when those things kicked off, you know, it wasn’t built for that, it was just already there and part of our lives.

[00:12:47] Simon Scriver: And I think that’s like something to be especially proud of. Do you know that it’s not a forced thing, but you are just peppered throughout all these incredible waves and moments. 

[00:12:57] Pascale Harvie: Yeah. Well thanks for that, Simon. I think, as I said at the start, you know, like we are really privileged that we’re a part of that every day, and we’re really proud that we support those fundraisers, the charities, et cetera, to help people raise money for things that are close to their heart.

[00:13:16] Simon Scriver: Well, on a, on a person, I, you probably hate the personal questions, but on a personal question, like what, what stuck out for you in terms of either fundraising. Donating, you know, what is it that moves you? Because obviously we can look at the data 

[00:13:29] Pascale Harvie: Yeah. 

[00:13:30] Simon Scriver: And not, but all within that, there’s just all these millions of individual stories.

[00:13:34] Simon Scriver: I’m curious for you, do you, is there anything you remember where you really were pushed to give or take part in? 

[00:13:40] Pascale Harvie: You know, I can look at that in a couple of ways in answering it. I think there are so many inspirational people that we deal with on a day-to-day basis. Um, and we do feel incredibly lucky to witness this day in, day out.

[00:13:54] Pascale Harvie: Um. I’m going to mention a couple of fundraisers I think that have really stood out for me, um, over the last five years of being involved with just giving. Um, one of them is the heartwarming story of a hundred year old Margaret. So Margaret got poor eyesight and bad hands, and on her a hundredth birthday, she made over a hundred jars of marmalade, um, to raise funds for the Nightingale Cancer Support Center.

[00:14:22] Pascale Harvie: When we spoke to her, she had her son-in-law there who was helping her with her page and the internet and everything, but she, for her, she wanted to raise the money for the Nightingale Cancer Support Center and she made these a hundred jar of mom laid to sell. And you know, it’s just a really nice reminder for us that.

[00:14:44] Pascale Harvie: It doesn’t matter what you do, it’s just that act of doing something that helps, you know, it brings you part of the community. It makes you feel good. She was so proud of a hundred as she should be, jars of marmalade and what she’d managed to achieve considering her poor health and bad hands and all the rest of it.

[00:15:02] Pascale Harvie: And then you’ve got little kids like Frankie McMillan, who at just the age of just seven, he became the youngest Britain ever to summit to the highest point of man Olympus. Whilst raising thousands of pounds for charities and inspiring so many other kids to get outdoors and do healthy, amazing things that they love.

[00:15:19] Pascale Harvie: And then you’ve got people like Lloyd Martin. I mean, he’s on a mission to show the world the people with Down Syndrome can do anything that they set their mind to. And he set the Guinness World Record as the youngest person with Down Syndrome to complete a full marathon at the age of 19. Uh, I mean, he’s incredible, but I think.

[00:15:39] Pascale Harvie: You know, for me, one of the people that continues to inspire me is Adele Roberts. I mean, she’s an inspiration. She’s, as most of you would know, has bowel cancer. She’s a bowel cancer survivor, living with a stoma that she has nicknamed Audrey, and like Be’s whole story is just incredible. You know, she’s been fundraising for years now, and she’s even secured the Guinness World Record as the fastest person to run a marathon with a colostomy bag.

[00:16:06] Pascale Harvie: Her current fundraising challenge sees her running the world by taking on the big six marathons across the globe, and she’ll finish it at the London Marathon this month. I mean, it’s just incredible. 

[00:16:19] Simon Scriver: It, it is amazing. And it’s, it’s like, what’s that quote where, you know, in times of trouble you look for the helpers.

[00:16:27] Simon Scriver: Do you know? Yeah. You don’t, you don’t look for this problem. You look for the helper and it’s like when you browse, just giving, yeah. It’s wild, you know, it’s just, you know, you’ve, what, what was the number you had in your report? It was 13 million fundraising efforts, like 13 million people, and then each of those people surrounded and that, that effect and it’s just so wonderful.

[00:16:46] Simon Scriver: And one of the things I, I do love about just giving and, and is, is that you cheer lead. Do you know, you highlight these stories, you talk about them. You’re not, you know, you’re not talk, always talking about the platform, you’re not talking about the features. You’re not talking about the star. You’re always cheerleading and, and I’ve been really privileged to go to the Just Giving awards where you do that in spades, like, and where it, it is just been so, so incredible.

[00:17:10] Simon Scriver: Um, so I, I do, anyone who’s listening to this, I do recommend looking at this 25 year report. This we will link so that you can, uh, uh, um, read it and download it. Because again, you’ve pulled out these stories and you’ve highlighted it. I mean, that, that’s clearly a conscious approach. Is it Pascale from just giving, I mean, you are always talking about.

[00:17:29] Simon Scriver: Fundraisers and the, and the, and the causes and the impact and that in inspiration that that must be a conscious decision. 

[00:17:36] Pascale Harvie: It is, but it is about celebrating those people because that’s what I mean, and I, I don’t say it lightly when I say that we are so privileged to deal with these individuals on a day-to-day basis.

[00:17:49] Pascale Harvie: Grant that inspiration? Yes. It’s about the platform. Yes, it’s about the technology. Yes. It’s about being compliant and secure. And I can bore you, Simon, with what that looks like and how much, how hard we have to work to ensure that we are a secure, reliable platform that I know, uh, can trust that you or myself, whoever, to use it as a tool to give that it’s secure, safe, all of those things, and it’s leading with technology and helping the charities.

[00:18:17] Pascale Harvie: Um, to raise as much as they possibly can to fulfill their missions. But fundamentally, it comes down to these incredible individuals who do amazing things and the fundraising teams that enable these individuals to do really incredible things. It’s, um, yeah, so I see, yes, it probably is a conscious thought, but it, it truly is what we focus on as a business.

[00:18:40] Pascale Harvie: They’re amazing individuals that do incredible things and helping those charities. To support those individuals or to go further with their virtual events. 

[00:18:50] Simon Scriver: Yeah, I think, I think that I, your, your dog is just, uh, a chip in there with an agreement. No, no. We, we need a chorus of dogs cheering on after every, every time we make a good point.

[00:19:02] Simon Scriver: Um, but you, you said something there, which I do wanna highlight, you know, about the, the charity teams and the fundraising team who are, who are managing this, you know, who are that kind of bridge between the, cause the platform. Fundraisers, you know, they’re, they’re in the middle there and they work so hard and they’re, you know, so many people are having such a tough time at the moment in terms of everything that’s going on.

[00:19:22] Simon Scriver: Yeah. So it, it’s great. You know, I find just giving a, always very supporting of their charity clients and, and I’ve said it to so many people for like, just pick up the phones just giving. ’cause it’s like, it’s just advice, you know? It’s almost like an advice line and a helpline. So on that note. I would love to come back to that crystal ball and, and think about, you know, what our learnings are over these last 25 years and what’s, what’s important for the fundraisers and the charities who are listening to this.

[00:19:49] Simon Scriver: You must talk to a lot of charities every day, every day, and, and hear their woes and struggles at the moment. Pascale, what do you think is, is important right now for the fundraisers who are listening? What do you think is, is, is ahead of them over the next, um, months and years? 

[00:20:06] Pascale Harvie: You know, it’s really interesting because the traditional fundraising, like bake sales, um, continue to feature, as does marathon cycling and walking events, and the viral moments like your ice bucket challenges.

[00:20:21] Pascale Harvie: So we, along with those sort of traditional activities, we are seeing gaming events becoming so much more popular with Gen Z. Also the trend of people taking on extreme challenges like ultra marathons, iron Mans and Skydiving. I think the, um, the second year, so 2001, uh, there was like 14 people that were fundraising for extreme challenges and last year there was tens of thousands of fundraisers.

[00:20:49] Pascale Harvie: I think things like the gaming is really interesting and again, I will say that one thing has remained constant and that is. To your earlier point, even in difficult times, people’s unwavering dedication to supporting causes that they care deeply about and their incredible capacity for kindness and generosity.

[00:21:09] Pascale Harvie: Um, and it does continue to inspire and it should continue to inspire and amaze us as fundraisers working for charities. It should continue to inspire amaze every day. I think from a charity point of view, when we researched the charity, 65% of those charities said that they feel positive. About their prospects with 94% of those charities saying that they’re on track to meet their fundraising targets, which is a really good thing.

[00:21:34] Pascale Harvie: Mm. 

[00:21:35] Pascale Harvie: But the interesting part was that only 5% believed that those aged 18 to 24, the Gen Zs have the biggest potential for donation growth. With over half the charities focused on those 35 plus to help drive donation growth. This obviously contradicts what the consumers have told us in our research. It also contradicts what I probably would’ve said to you prior to the research being taken.

[00:21:58] Pascale Harvie: So I think we should take a moment to think about it. I think they also say things like that they like the transparency, they like to know where their funds are going. So it’s important that we start to understand what they’re looking for and how we can show up in that area and also show up through different types of events potentially.

[00:22:18] Pascale Harvie: Um. I think the other finding was that 45% said the biggest opportunities for charities to boost donations was through further integrations of things like ai. Um, and again, I think it’s really important to make sure that you’re keeping up with technology called that’s the right word, trends. Um, because it’s expected, especially by those Gen Zs.

[00:22:42] Pascale Harvie: They are, they’re the ones that are gonna hold us all accountable to make sure that we’re up and, um. Ahead of the curve, basically with technologies make their lives as easy as possible. So yeah, I think there’s some really interesting things, but I think the age of the, um, of the fundraisers and the donors came as a real surprise.

[00:23:04] Simon Scriver: Yeah, I think that’s something definitely not to be sniffed at. And it obviously goes hand in hand with the technical, technical, I’m struggling as well, technological change. So, no, I think, I think that’s a really important and, and as we come towards this end, you know, I, I. I dread to ask you this, but we have to, it’s almost like fixed in every, in every interview now it’s ai.

[00:23:24] Simon Scriver: It’s what, what do you think, what, what do you have on in the path for ai? What do you think is in the pipeline? What should we be doing now? What, what’s your overall thoughts on AI and, and this weird place we’re at the moment? 

[00:23:37] Pascale Harvie: Well, I think we need further integration of ai. Um, you know, it’s relatively new.

[00:23:43] Pascale Harvie: We talk about it. We’ve got our on the JG platform, the new AI story enhancer tool. What we know from that is that it does make, it does help people raise more. So by giving people the tools they need to easily build a story in this case on their, um, peer-to-peer fundraising page. We know that that interaction helps them go on to raise more money.

[00:24:07] Pascale Harvie: So if that’s just one small slice of what, thinking about fundraising as a whole. It’s definitely really important to make sure that we are bringing it into our worlds. Um, I don’t think we sh it’s not these sort of tools, even cryptocurrency are not things that we should be scared about. I think these sorts of tools are things that we need to be embracing.

[00:24:27] Pascale Harvie: We need to be bringing in people who specialize in those areas, who understand it. Um, speak to the younger generation. If you don’t have people like that in your teams, understand where they’re thinking, what they’re doing. What that looks like. It makes a big difference. Uh, I just, I don’t think that we can pull the shutters down and continue fundraising like we always have.

[00:24:52] Pascale Harvie: We just need to embrace things like ai, which will not only make our lives easier, it will help us raise more funds. 

[00:25:01] Simon Scriver: That makes sense. And I, I think, I mean, like, I think I, and a lot of fundraisers look to just give him for that. Learning sometimes because you have access to so much, um, you know, so many different clients, so many different fundraisers, so many different pages.

[00:25:15] Simon Scriver: You have that kind of benchmark data, um, to see what is working. So I mean, I will be watching with the close eye how you guys start to use AI more and, and, and how that impacts results. That I think that’ll be super, super interesting. Super. Yeah. 

[00:25:28] Pascale Harvie: We look forward to sharing it. Simon. 

[00:25:30] Simon Scriver: Aw, you’re so generous with the.

[00:25:33] Simon Scriver: I love it. Um, but I will remind everyone again, just, uh, anyone who’s listening to this, please do. Um, look at the t what, what just giving a published for their 25th anniversary, uh, 25th birthday, sorry. Uh, it’s very, very interesting insights in there and as always, very generous. Um, and if you’re not on the just giving list, mailing list as a fundraiser, I feel like that’s an essential that you should be on that.

[00:25:53] Simon Scriver: Pascale, for you, what’s, what’s your personal goals as we start to wrap up? What’s your personal goals for the next six to 12 months? Where do you see yourself? 

[00:26:01] Pascale Harvie: Where do I see myself? You know, really honestly, if I look at it from a six to 12 month focus, I, we, there’s so much more that we wanna be doing from a just giving lens.

[00:26:13] Pascale Harvie: Um, we wanna make sure that we are embracing the technology side of it. We’re looking at the North American market as well, and also the learnings from there as to what we can bring back to the UK world. Um, so I think it’s as simple as saying that we. Literally, uh, my plans and the plans of the, the team that sits across just giving is to help make 2025 even better for the charity partners that we have, um, and that we work with and to, um, to enable the technology that we’ve talked about and be thinking around the corner so that we can, you know, bring that back to the not-for-profit world to help them continue to be as successful as they can be.

[00:26:56] Simon Scriver: I love it. I love it. And, and I, I mean to say thank you again because honestly, the impact just giving has had, you know, it’s peppered throughout my fundraising career. Every client I’ve ever worked with, every charity I’ve ever stepped in, you know, just giving us that, you know, it’s part of it. And the support we’ve got from your team and the support from just giving around our digital learning grant and the support you give to our community in delivering conferences.

[00:27:19] Simon Scriver: It, it really. It really is one of those suppliers where like, I’m proud to really work with them because it’s like, you live your values. Do you know, it’s not just like corporate spiel. It’s like every single person we deal with in your team has just been so wonderful and just so supportive. So honestly, happy, happy birthday and thank you so much.

[00:27:38] Simon Scriver: Thank you for, for everything you 

[00:27:39] Pascale Harvie: tam and thank you for your kind words around the team. You’re only as good as the people around you. Yes, Simon. And, and there is a incredibly fabulous team that’s across just giving, so thank you. And we love working with fundraising everywhere. By the way. We love working with yourself and Nikki and the team, and Cam and everyone doing amazing things.

[00:27:59] Pascale Harvie: So the feeling is mutual. 

[00:28:01] Simon Scriver: That’s great. I appreciate that. I, it’s, it’s so lovely team and we do have such a wonderful team. I mean, it’s not me, I mean, me and you, we just sit around and chat and take our dogs for a walk and stuff like that. It’s just the rest of the team 

[00:28:11] Pascale Harvie: try to keep the dog quiet.

[00:28:13] Pascale Harvie: Apologies again 

[00:28:14] Simon Scriver: for that. It’s No, I, I love it. I, I, I’m so obsessed with these little cute dogs at the moment. I’m, I’m desperate to get a little sausage dog, but, um, we can’t that for a different podcast. We’ll talk about that. Simon, 

[00:28:27] Pascale Harvie: thank 

[00:28:28] Simon Scriver: you so much for your time. Thank you everyone for listening. Again, please do check out, um, the report and everything published by Just Giving, and, and my name has been Simon Scriver.

[00:28:35] Simon Scriver: I am the co-founder of Fundraising Everywhere. Please do reach out to us if we can help with anything. Um, but otherwise, thank you all for listening. I. Great to be here. Great to still be here and have a good day. Take care. 

[00:28:47] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend?

[00:28:55] Alex Aggidis: And if you would like to give us a little like of Scribe, it really helps more fundraisers that you find us. Thank you so much. See you next time.

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This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:00:59] Simon Scriver: I love the, I love the brick work. It always means,

[00:01:01] Amy-Jane Meerman: yeah, it’s, uh, it’s real brick as well. Yeah. Oh,

[00:01:04] Simon Scriver: oh, fancy. You must, you must be very well, it’s very

[00:01:06] Amy-Jane Meerman: fancy. Yeah.

[00:01:08] Simon Scriver: Alright, well let’s kick us off. Hello everyone and welcome to the fundraising of our podcast. Uh, whether you are watching this back, uh, somewhere on social or you’re listening to us on, on, uh, our podcast.

[00:01:19] Simon Scriver: You are very welcome. My name is Simon Scriver. I’m one of the co-founders of Fundraising everywhere. Um, and this month we’ve been talking a lot about face-to-face and we’ve been talking a lot about telephone fundraising. Um, and a while ago I was fortunate enough to see, uh, my guest today speak, uh, at a previous conference, well, at a conference that I was speaking at where we were shouting about, uh, how great telephone fundraising is.

[00:01:40] Simon Scriver: And you don’t often see that. Um, and so we are very, very happy to have our speaker, uh, um, Amy Jane Mimon, who’s coming to speak to us at the conference. That’s happened on April 24th. We have our telephone fundraising conference, which is happening on April 24th. Um, so you can get tickets for that or you can watch it back on demand.

[00:02:00] Simon Scriver: Um, but let me go ahead and welcome our guest. Hello, Amy Jane, how are you?

[00:02:05] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I’m fine. Um, busy week, but, uh, that’s how it’s supposed to be. Yeah.

[00:02:12] Simon Scriver: Well, well call centers are never quiet, are they? And then you have to bounce, you have to balance it. So I’m so grateful that you’ve made the time for us.

[00:02:19] Simon Scriver: Um, because you, you are a big telephone person, aren’t you? I mean, what you, you work at the crew, uh, you manage the call center. Could you tell us a little bit about your role and what the crew do?

[00:02:29] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Um, so I talk, I will talk a little bit. So, uh, we are in Belgium. Uh, I’m Dutch, so, uh, sometimes I have to search a little bit for my words in English, but it will be fine.

[00:02:41] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, yeah, about me. Um, I. 10 years ago, I, um, I did a, a job interview for being an agent at the crew. Uh, the first week I thought, oh my gosh, this is horrible. I wanna go, I wanna go. I wanna go. Um, uh, because you have to talk to people the whole day. Uh, you go home with, uh, pain in your ears, uh, and, uh, 10 years later I’m still there.

[00:03:07] Amy-Jane Meerman: So, um. It, it already shows my passion, I think. Um,

[00:03:12] Simon Scriver: I’m always curious how people fall into this. Was this, is this a job? ’cause it’s just like, here’s a job, or were you coming from, um, speaking on the phones? Or what were you doing beforehand, before you found

[00:03:22] Amy-Jane Meerman: No, I, I wanted, uh, I want, I was very artsy, so I wanted to do a, uh, and, uh, patronage and, uh, I, I did a lot of things in, uh, in, in, in the sewing.

[00:03:34] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, so no, it was, it was just. I wanted to work somewhere and this came on my path. And, uh, like I told you, the first week, uh, became 10 years. Yeah. And

[00:03:44] Simon Scriver: this is, this has become your passion instead of creative being Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Really.

[00:03:49] Amy-Jane Meerman: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I have to, uh, to admit as well, if you, if, if I was, when I was little, uh, I wanted to be a superhero.

[00:03:57] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and so it was, okay, um, how can I become this superhero? And, uh, as time goes past, uh, and you get older, then uh, it all gets a little bit limited and, uh, you have to, to see what is really possible. Uh, so at the moment when I stepped in, in the call center, um, I already liked working for the NGOs. Um, and yeah, it, it, it’s a real passion because we are.

[00:04:24] Amy-Jane Meerman: We are, uh, doing lots of good on the world. Yeah. And I can do that from my hometown. So,

[00:04:31] Simon Scriver: and, and, and, and you guys have been doing some amazing work and, and I, I love chat. I love chatting to you and hearing you speak about it, but I’m really interested in how, in, in this kind of management style, ’cause there’s such an interesting thing when people start working in telephone fundraising or, or face-to-face fundraising, that those kind of what are viewed as like almost junior positions of fundraising.

[00:04:52] Simon Scriver: So many people kind of fall into it and, and so many people come out of it again, you know, you do, I mean, I’m not speaking for your call center, but call centers. I’ve worked with, there’s quite a lot of churn in that staff. Um, and you said yourself in that that first week can be hell. I’m, I’m really, I’m really curious.

[00:05:11] Simon Scriver: What kept you going? Then I’d really love to understand like how you bring that into your management now. Like how you get, get your new telephone people to not hate it in that first week and, and push through it. What’s, tell, tell. Start by, start by telling me about you. What, what, why did you stay beyond that first week?

[00:05:30] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, well it’s, it’s like, um. Life, live and, uh, I cannot tell your romantic story. Uh, I was alone, uh, at, uh, at a young age, uh, here in Belgium, married at a young age, and, uh, yeah, then was looking for, for a job. And, uh, and I. This was what I found and actually, uh, going to school and I always was not fitting, uh, I was not fitting in the school system.

[00:05:58] Amy-Jane Meerman: I was never fitting anywhere. Uh, and so I was very happy to, to be able to, to get a job like this. Uh, to be honest, I, I. I didn’t know if I could do it, if I was worried enough. And, um, all, all sorts of things that I have outgrown at this moment, but, uh, was very, very, uh, visible and very, uh, present at this, at that time.

[00:06:18] Amy-Jane Meerman: So it was not a romantic story of, oh, and then I saw the light and I saw how good the work was of NGOs. No, um, it was not that romantic. Um, but, uh, and. If, uh, if I bring my feeling at that first week, uh, back to, to this conversation, um, I see a lot of young people stepping in the call center, um, not knowing what they want to do, uh, dropped out of school, young moms and, uh, people with a lot of potential.

[00:06:49] Amy-Jane Meerman: So I, I want to. Really, uh, highlight that they have a lot of potential, uh, step in with very low self-esteem. Um, so yeah, it’s, it’s a little bit of an honor knowing that I came from that situation in now, being able to give chances to people that, uh, start the same way as I did.

[00:07:09] Simon Scriver: That is a beautiful story, like a true telephone fundraiser.

[00:07:12] Simon Scriver: You’ve, you’ve turned it into a, into a really beautiful, because it’s true. I mean, I, I did my days as a, as a cold caller outside of the sector and I’ve worked, you know, and managed telephone fundraising and it, there is a confidence that I found through it, and I have seen what you are talking about where people kind of discover their voice.

[00:07:33] Simon Scriver: A little bit or learn to learn to talk, I think. Yeah. And, and, and there is something about that, that apply that you then bring into every other part of your life. And more and more we’re seeing people who started as telephone fundraising move into heads of fundraising positions or even, even, you know, CEOs and things like that.

[00:07:50] Simon Scriver: Like it is a career path Now, do you, mm-hmm. Where do you see your team and your staff? Is it, do you see them moving into higher fundraising roles? What are the opportunities that you see with, with the people that you work with in that situation?

[00:08:05] Amy-Jane Meerman: I. Well, that’s why I’m really happy you invited me to talk, uh, because they are only going in those higher, or have building up their career into fundraising if we treat them well at the beginning.

[00:08:17] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, I think that’s, uh, that’s a, a very important thing to save. If you put targets on their head and they have to call, call, call, call, call, uh, the, the whole 40 hours that they’re there, uh, they’re not gonna love their job. They’re not gonna love the fundraising. They’re not going to be. Committ it, uh, to, to NGOs and what they’re doing.

[00:08:37] Amy-Jane Meerman: They’re going, they’re going to be your biggest critics because you didn’t treat them well. So, um, I, I think that’s the most important thing for all NGOs doing tailor marketing, if it’s in-house or um, or outhouse. Um, be realistic. You’re not only, um, you’re not only trapping yourself by losing donors, precious donors, but you’re losing high potential in who’s going to be the next fundraiser.

[00:09:06] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm. Do, do you find like your clients and the NGOs that you work with, do. Is there a pressure sometimes, you know, that kind of, that causes Absolutely. Causes this channel. Like, why, why is this? Yeah. Absolutely not always happening. Yeah.

[00:09:19] Amy-Jane Meerman: I, I absolutely, and, and, um, let me say, they are all so, um, so, uh, so loving of what they do and they want to change the world like I do.

[00:09:29] Amy-Jane Meerman: And, um, but they come in and they say, oh, I had a, I had a board meeting and they told me that the fundraising department has have to fix this. Problem. So they already step in with high expectations and Okay, they are going to fix our problem. No, we’re not. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, we’re not. Uh, we’re going to help you.

[00:09:48] Amy-Jane Meerman: But fundraising takes time.

[00:09:51] Simon Scriver: It’s, it’s that, I mean, you talk so much about it. When I saw you speak that kind of learning and development and investing in our staff and team, what are, what are some of the ways that you, at the crew. I guess, I mean, I, I’d love to talk about the new people especially. Do you know, but, but everyone as a whole, like what, what are, what are the common things that you might do or, or how do you, how do you.

[00:10:12] Simon Scriver: How do you decide where your focus is when you’re trying to keep these people engaged and keep them working for you?

[00:10:18] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, so again, uh, not a romantic story, uh, that I have to tell, but, um, I became, um, manager four years ago. So as I told, I started as an agent, uh, them team coach. Uh, I, I was project leader and um, my formal manager got sick.

[00:10:37] Amy-Jane Meerman: Uh, and it was, it was supposed to be like a tree. Uh, interim, uh, interim, uh, job for me. Uh, it was full vacation. I said, okay, why not? I’m gonna do it. Four years later, I’m still there. But yeah. Uh, again, nice story.

[00:10:56] Simon Scriver: I hope you, I hope they’re not still sick, are they? I hope, I hope it’s No, no, no, no. She’s,

[00:10:59] Amy-Jane Meerman: uh, she’s very well and still working, uh, within the company now, um, with another role she really loves.

[00:11:05] Amy-Jane Meerman: So, uh, that’s, that’s all, uh, sorted out. Um, but. You know, um, we came out of, of difficult times. Corona was not an, an easy time, face-to-face stopped, uh, which means, meant that, uh, we didn’t get a lot of contacts to call. Yeah. Um, so also before that, um, t fundraising was not at all as professional as it’s.

[00:11:28] Amy-Jane Meerman: Should be right now. Uh, I think there’s a big evolution in KPI controlling, uh, measuring and all stuff that did that wasn’t there 10 years ago. Um, in, in my view, um, so. I had to build everything from, from scratch. So having a, a whole team, uh, team coaches, um, making sure that onboarding for agents was, was well, well arranged, um, because indeed it is, uh, uh, it’s busy, it’s call center.

[00:11:59] Amy-Jane Meerman: Come in, sit on your chair and start calling because, uh, every minute has to be profitable. Um. We had to change that. We had to change to, okay. Take a step back. What do you need if you come in a call center? Um, I think the most important thing in my team is that they are part of everything. So it doesn’t work without the, the, the callers.

[00:12:25] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, that’s, that’s the biggest part. If, if they’re not there, then what am I doing? Uh, so if they come in, um, we show them everything about. Us, uh, our way of working, um, making sure that they know, uh, everyone in the company that what is my role? What is the role of the DA data? Where can they go in in the first week if they have questions?

[00:12:48] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, what is the system for, uh, asking, uh, asking, uh, uh, a day off, for example? We are very flexible because I think, uh, it’s needed. Um. Explaining all, uh, all, all the organizations that we work for. Um, and, uh, little by little explaining them, um, how it all works. Um, when I was an agent, I didn’t know how it worked.

[00:13:17] Amy-Jane Meerman: Mm. Uh, I didn’t know what return on investment was and, um, how important, um, it was to, to have conversion and, and calls per hour and, um, and everything that’s behind there. Um, uh, I. Didn’t always feel I was listened to. Um, and not by fault of anyone, but, uh, it’s difficult if you have a lot of people that you have to listen to, to, to really listen.

[00:13:43] Amy-Jane Meerman: Mm. Um. So I think them, uh, being involved in everything we do really makes it a part of, okay, we are a team and we’re doing this together and we’re getting results together. Um, so also micromanagement. That’s not how we do it. Uh, um, and if I talk about how we work. A lot of our projects or clients or new clients, yeah.

[00:14:09] Amy-Jane Meerman: But it’s not a social, uh, we have to have, uh, results. Yes, of course. I’m well aware. Uh, and it’s all possible even if you do it on a, on, on a human, uh, way. So it’s all, yeah, it’s all possible.

[00:14:24] Simon Scriver: I mean, it’s because it’s, it’s a similar conversation that that kind of, we were having when in, in my call center days, and, and I’ve seen lots of clients have, and it’s, it’s really, it’s really strange that.

[00:14:36] Simon Scriver: People don’t see, you know, that we, I, I mean, I include myself in it, that sometimes we overlook that investment in people and time into their training and making them, like you say, understand what’s going on around them. And, and we’ve kind of found ourselves in this, in this strange catch 22 situation where we.

[00:14:56] Simon Scriver: We, we feel like we can’t afford to put time into them, and then we wonder why they keep leaving and keep moving on, but then we don’t change anything. So what, what do you think is the, the future? Like how do you change it? I mean, you can control it and change it in your, your place, but what about the callers or what about the heads of fundraising who are getting it from their board and you know, all this pressure?

[00:15:18] Simon Scriver: How do we on a practical level, start to get people to take this training, this learning and development? How do we get ’em to take it seriously? I.

[00:15:27] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah, it’s, it’s, um, I, I just want to add as well that we are a call center of all kinds of people. Uh, we are very inclusive, and so everyone, uh, is welcome. And, uh, we really look at, at, uh, at what they can do rather than how they look or what their disability is, or, uh, um, so I think that’s a very, very important thing to say, um, because we have a team.

[00:15:50] Amy-Jane Meerman: If, if you accept everyone. Then it becomes a team that’s warm. Um, so I, I always look for, for people that, um, that yeah, that really are, um, that really are, uh, loving, uh, and, and warm and want to work for NGOs. I think that is already the start. So if you. Engage. Uh, if you have, uh, someone coming by that wants to work at our call center, we really already look at does this person fit in our team?

[00:16:22] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and yeah, you know, I don’t want car sellers. Uh, they, they can do leads very well and I’m aware, uh, well aware. Uh, and that’s all a hype now. Yeah. Leads, were gonna do a campaign on new donors and yes, we won it all. I get it. Yeah. Um, but no, uh, that’s not how it works. So. To to, to make it start by just being very realistic in who is in your team as well.

[00:16:49] Amy-Jane Meerman: So that’s the fir that’s really the first step. That’s our responsibility to have a team that, that works well together, that’s in there for the good reasons. Um, and. For, for the organizations. Yeah. You have to be realistic. You cannot get it all. Um, uh, um, I understand that you want, uh, 10 calls at 10, uh, uh, negative, positive calls per hour.

[00:17:14] Amy-Jane Meerman: I get it. Uh, I know that you want the highest conversion rates, and I want, I know that’s, uh, I know that you want return on investment as soon as possible. I, I get it. Um, and, but it’s. It can all be done if you do it very humanely. Um, I, I think sometimes if you look at organizations, they are very harsh for, um, the, the suppliers.

[00:17:39] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, uh, if you look at the agents, they have to be, uh, ongoing every minute of their weekly, uh, weekly planning. Uh, so, um, and if I ask, okay, but the, the 38 hours, if you do 38 hours. Aren’t you getting a coffee? Do, don’t you do a talk with your colleagues? Don’t you do? Yeah. Can you pee? I think. I think you can.

[00:18:02] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, if we don’t treat them as robots and real human Yeah. Uh, then, then, uh, that’s a big, uh, problem solved. Then you have to invest time. Yeah. The, the thing that is, uh, that. That happens sometimes is that, uh, you have a, uh, you have your project and the projects, uh, manager of the NGO, um, and they have a lot of trust in us.

[00:18:26] Amy-Jane Meerman: Mm-hmm. Sometimes it’s a lot of trust, sometimes it’s a lack of trust, but, uh, it’s, it comes down the same thing. Um. They, they think, okay, hey, they have it under control. Uh, I, I, I, I leave it for what it is and I will see the results when, when it’s done. Um, and that’s such a shame because, uh, you have this, uh, really motivated team that wants to, that wants to call for your, for your NGO and wants to get, uh, good results and, um.

[00:18:54] Amy-Jane Meerman: Then engage with them. Come here to, to explain them. What do you do? Give them your passion, uh, and uh, come back to listen to conversation. Have, have good feedback, uh, moments, uh, after that. So I think it’s a partnership that is really important

[00:19:09] Simon Scriver: on, on so many levels there. ’cause you, you mentioned like a kind, a few stages in the chain and I feel like we are losing some of that.

[00:19:16] Simon Scriver: Um, team. Feeling a along the way. So sometimes it’s with like the, the agency managers and their staff, you know, not treating them, but sometimes it’s the NGOs themselves and how they view their suppliers is kind of over there. And then I, I would, I would argue it’s the same with like fundraising departments in an ngo O sometimes the rest on the board and the ceo, they, they view fundraising as something over there.

[00:19:40] Simon Scriver: Yeah. And so, well, I mean, we joked at, at at that, at a conference we both spoke at. We were talking about how. Telephone fundraisers are almost the bottom of the ladder sometimes in terms of how they’re viewed and, but really when you’re talking about results, I mean telephone is performing, isn’t it? I mean it is delivering sometimes way better ROI than some of the accepted channels.

[00:20:01] Amy-Jane Meerman: Exactly. Yeah. I find that

[00:20:03] Simon Scriver: really interesting.

[00:20:04] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, is such a good way to, to keep in touch with your donors. Um, also, and I think, uh, if you talk about all the KPI, uh, stuff, um, we forget about retention. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, uh, benchmarking with other call centers and I’ve heard it all.

[00:20:24] Amy-Jane Meerman: It’s okay. You can benchmark, uh, um, no problem for me. Uh, but you know, if, if you really want to benchmark, you have to wait six months and to see. Who of the donors is still there. Um, for example, you have all those methods of how to negotiate and no, and to get it into a yes. And, um, that’s, that’s great. But I called for some years, uh, and I’m so grateful that I had this experience.

[00:20:51] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and this is also what I tell every moment. I can pick up the phone and do some calls. Did you write a script? Then call someone and do your script. And I can assure you that half of your script goes away. Um, but do it yourself. Try to, to see what is possible. Oh, we don’t want calls longer than five minutes.

[00:21:11] Amy-Jane Meerman: Okay? Try to call yourself and then you see that what is really possible, um, that is so important, and okay, if it’s, if it is longer than five minutes, uh, if it’s a great conversations and, and, and the donor is very happy with your cause and, and keeps on giving and maybe. Takes you up in their, in, in their, in their lack.

[00:21:31] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, then it was all worded. Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we also forget. So, uh, yes. Agents, but we also forget that donors are people.

[00:21:40] Simon Scriver: Yeah. You know, and they really open up, they really open up on these calls, don’t they? They get into conversations

[00:21:48] Amy-Jane Meerman: if you do it well. Um, but if I have to, uh, if I have to like do this for all, uh, the demands of, of projects, and again, I get it.

[00:21:58] Amy-Jane Meerman: Everyone is on the pressure and I get it. Um, but I really have to look at, okay, this, I won’t tell the agents and that I will tell the agents because that is relevant. And the other thing, yeah, that’s not under their, their control. Very, very important that I do that because sometimes mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, you, you should not break their mojo.

[00:22:18] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah, yeah. Uh, keep them going like they want to. Uh, like they, they’re going on well. Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s so important that we don’t, we don’t go into very commercial. Um, we want results. Uh, donors absolutely sense it and with good reason. Uh, um, you have to have the, the good. Good talks to, to have, uh, donor value for a long, long time.

[00:22:45] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, where I wanted to go to as well. Uh, when I talk about retention, we often don’t get back retention. So we have a return on investment and looks very good and, um, but the retention is so important. Yeah. Uh, to see how the quality of the causes, how your strategy. Is going, uh, um, we sometimes we had, um, um, projects that say, okay, double the amount.

[00:23:11] Amy-Jane Meerman: Uh, so if you do the call for upgrade, then double the amount and first results looked fantastic. Okay? Lots of people doubled it. And, um, but if you looked at, at, uh. There was also a project that sent it emails to, uh, the donors that said no. Mm-hmm. Um, and uh, out of that came a lot of people that were not really happy with that question.

[00:23:33] Amy-Jane Meerman: Mm-hmm. Um, so what happens? Retention goes very bad and then your donor value goes down, but if you don’t look at it

[00:23:39] Simon & Amy-Jane: Yeah.

[00:23:40] Amy-Jane Meerman: Then you think you have done a good job. Yeah. Uh, and, and that’s so important too, if you want to qualitative. Good fundraising. Yeah. Uh, tailor fundraising, then it’s so important to, to, I think retention is one of the most important KPIs.

[00:23:55] Amy-Jane Meerman: And then you have complaints or is, is one of the most important KPIs. Yeah. Um, and, um, and yeah, we have to, to kick take. More care of that.

[00:24:05] Simon Scriver: Yeah. But I, I think the retention point is so important about, because it is so often that that agencies and, and callers themselves never get any feedback about what happens after that call, really.

[00:24:17] Simon Scriver: And so how can we expect to adapt and improve if that’s not happening? So I love the way that you’re leading on this. And I love, I just wanna say, I love what you’re saying about pick up the phone and try it, and then you’ll understand it because I think like,

[00:24:31] Simon & Amy-Jane: yeah.

[00:24:31] Simon Scriver: We have such a fear in the sector. You know, people who work in all levels of fundraising have such a fear of picking up the phone sometimes.

[00:24:36] Simon Scriver: But actually when you do it most of the time, the vast majority of the time, it’s a really positive experience, isn’t it? Yeah. And it’s just like, so, so I love that advice. That’s, that’s gonna be my send off for people is my thing to do. So I want you to tell me, Amy Jane. Before, and then we’ll quickly talk about your session.

[00:24:53] Simon Scriver: If someone’s picking up the phone, now imagine someone watching this or listening to this is picking up their phone. How do you get them fired up? What is your, what is your message to them, uh, as they switch off this podcast and pick up the phone for the first time?

[00:25:07] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Uh, so yes, I want them to call. Uh, so I’m, I’m going to think of something really good.

[00:25:13] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, I, um, I’ve put you, I, yeah, I really, really cherish. I had some great stories and some great conversations that I would never forget in my life. Um, some, yeah, it’s, it’s special. It’s very special if you connect with someone. Um, and, um, what is my advice? So. Especially if you never called and you’re scared and, okay.

[00:25:40] Amy-Jane Meerman: I will tell you a story about, uh, about someone that came in our call center. I use it a lot for the new agents. Um, so there was a, an Indian guy. It’s, it’s to make the image a little bit, uh, visible. Uh, and at that time he could still, uh, look at every website and, uh, he was looking for cars under, under while calling.

[00:26:02] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and um, he said like, this. So Really he said, and he talked about, yeah, madam. You know, how many trees are going, do you know how many trees are lost each year? Um, and I thought it was so funny. Uh, it, it was, it was, there was no, uh, cells, uh, there were, the energy was so, so relaxed.

[00:26:29] Simon & Amy-Jane: Yeah.

[00:26:29] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and at the end of the day, he had, he had like top scores that I couldn’t, I couldn’t wrap my mind around it.

[00:26:36] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Yeah. As I was sitting next to, uh, next to the lovely guy, uh, and for a week and every day had he had like results that I couldn’t top. And yeah, I, the secret was he was calm. Mm. He didn’t say a lot. He just said what mattered because tree mattered and trees, uh, and people had, okay. Yes. Right. Yeah, they need more money for that.

[00:27:04] Amy-Jane Meerman: I understand. And so you don’t have to, to go into a whole scripting period and, and putting a lot of hours in preparations and no, just, just have a real conversation. Uh, have a real conversation like you, like you would with, uh, a close friend or not close friend. Um, look for me if I’m, uh, next. To someone on the streets, uh, I would begin talking.

[00:27:30] Amy-Jane Meerman: Uh, not everyone has that, uh, gift or curse. Um, so I understand if it’s, it’s scary to do, but just pick up the phone and if you don’t know the answer, you can say that. Mm-hmm. Oh, I don’t know. I come back to you on that, on this because it’s a very interesting questions. Or, or this is my first time calling, so if it’s not really, uh, uh.

[00:27:51] Amy-Jane Meerman: Ex, excuse me, I’m trying my best, um, be as humanly as possible. Uh, it’s okay. This is, this is a, um, this is a sector that you can be, that you’re forgiving, uh, forgiven for making, uh, here and there some, some mistakes and just do it.

[00:28:10] Simon Scriver: Mm. I love that. I lo I think that’s great, but, and humans are so forgiving and humans do love to talk.

[00:28:16] Simon Scriver: I mean, not always authentic, not everyone, but, but shockingly amount, like we fall into these conversations all the time.

[00:28:23] Amy-Jane Meerman: Be authentic. Be yourself and, and you. You can be yourself, um, if, if in every, any, in any sector, this is a sector to be yourself. Uh, so go for it. Yeah.

[00:28:34] Simon Scriver: You remind me. I, I’ll, I’ll just tell this story and then, because no one wants to hear from me, but you remind me.

[00:28:39] Simon Scriver: When I worked in a call center, non NGO years ago, and there was a guy and we were selling on the phone, and he, you know. Some people are so desperate to sell. And when I was new you, you’re so desperate. And this guy who was just such a good salesman and he was so relaxed. And I remember one time he, he, someone wanted to buy from him and he put them on hold and he went to the vending machine and he got a drink and he came back and he opened his drink and then took them off hold.

[00:29:04] Simon Scriver: And he was just like, there was none of that desperation. It was just exactly casual and it just reminded me of your.

[00:29:10] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Yeah. But that’s really the secret. So if I see people, especially if you get a lot of nos, and so, um, just just be honest. If you call people that, uh, don’t have a structural donation, uh, then maybe out of the hundred 10 will say yes.

[00:29:26] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, so out of the 10, one will say yes. Uh, and so you will hear a lot of nos and it’s okay. A no is good as well. So that’s something that I learned in, in this call center as well. And no is very valuable as well. Uh, uh, have that No, it’s okay. Um, and um, if you look at it that way, then I. Then it’s, it’s, it goes on its own.

[00:29:47] Amy-Jane Meerman: You don’t have to pressure so much. You don’t have to push, uh, so much. And if you have a good, uh, uh, if you have a realistic and, and, and, uh, and good, I wanted to say story. It’s not a story if you have, yeah. You call for an NGO and they really have, uh, something that they need the fund for. People will understand.

[00:30:05] Amy-Jane Meerman: You don’t have to push. Um, again, about the retention, just going back a little bit, um. If it goes about, uh, people that say, I don’t have a budget. And I think this is a very important one. That’s why I, I want to put it in. Um, I don’t have a budget. There are whole methods to go around to this. No. Turning it into a Yes.

[00:30:28] Amy-Jane Meerman: And, um, they are very proud of, uh, also the agent. Oh ha. I, I, yeah. She said yes at the end. Um. We have to, we really have to, uh, look better at ethical how we, how we work. Ethical. You know, I called for a long time and, um, and if you have been poor yourself, my mother, uh, was, uh, was alone with, uh, with us children.

[00:30:51] Amy-Jane Meerman: She was poor. She’s very, very giving. Um, and um, when I was calling a lot of people. Are poor themselves. Mm-hmm. So if you know people that wanna help other people are often people that know how it feels to, to need help. Mm-hmm. Um, so we commercialize it in the sense of yeah. But if they say no, you just have to go around it.

[00:31:13] Amy-Jane Meerman: You have to say that. Yes, I understand it. And, and, uh, um, yes, absolutely. I agree that you have to do some efforts to, to motivate someone to give. So I don’t say no, don’t do it, but there is a line. There is an ethical line that you should not pass. Mm-hmm. Uh, if someone is talking about hardship and you’re still trying to push to get that result in, um, it’s, it’s not kind of ethical.

[00:31:39] Amy-Jane Meerman: And, um, I, I just want to, to return on the retention. If you do it and you’re very proud of yourself because I have done it, um, we see and analyzes that that person doesn’t stay a long time. Mm-hmm. Yes, you have upgraded for five euros, for example. Mm-hmm. Um, but if they only stay three months after that, then you better should have left that person.

[00:32:03] Amy-Jane Meerman: Be the gift that he already had and was comfortable with. Maybe he would have supported another 10 years. But, so I, I think the whole idea of, of, um, of tele fundraising, having to get these results. Continuity. It, it always has to be better and better and better. Mm-hmm. That, that is not okay. Um, I, I think sometimes we lose a little bit of what fundraising and people that are giving for NGOs, what that really means because we’re so under pressure.

[00:32:37] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, and yeah, that’s important.

[00:32:39] Simon Scriver: Yeah. And I thi I think, you know, you said earlier about, about good telephone calls, and I think there is, you know, there’s, there’s this, sometimes there’s this split between either telephone’s great. And you just do as much as possible and sell, sell out, and also telephone’s terrible.

[00:32:55] Simon Scriver: Don’t touch it, don’t do anything. But you, you know, you and your team seem to have found this lovely space and, and you can feel it off you, the empathy mm-hmm. And the warmth. I can imagine that coming through in the calls and Yeah, and then it isn’t a sales call, it’s, it’s presenting this opportunity and if it’s not the right time for them, then that that’s okay.

[00:33:11] Simon Scriver: So I love what, yeah. I love what you, you

[00:33:14] Amy-Jane Meerman: know, the empathy and the warmth comes true and it scares. Uh, it scar projects because okay, she’s soft. Uh, and if I do pitches, um, for, for great NGOs where I really want to work with, um, there, there is a real reluctancy to, uh, to. Not to understand me, but to, to believe me, uh, to, to know that you can have good results by doing it a little bit softer.

[00:33:46] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Um, and, and that’s sometimes a point that I have difficulty with. Like, uh, yeah. But I care about results of course.

[00:33:54] Simon & Amy-Jane: Yeah.

[00:33:55] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, so yeah, that’s a little bit of, of the challenge, uh, that we have in the fundraising, uh, community, I think. Yeah. Um, and yeah, my. What I really, really, really would love, and that’s why I am saying it right now as well, um, to have a universal, uh, way of looking at KPIs.

[00:34:17] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, we have a very, um, we have a very broad, uh, result file with KPIs to exactly see if there’s a problem in the call list or there’s a problem with the agents or there’s another problem. Um, so I, I, I would so much love. To have a universal, uh, result file that we can all use and, and some of a method that we can all use.

[00:34:41] Amy-Jane Meerman: I think if there was. If there was a time to start doing that, it, it’s, it, we are there, we’re there, um, uh, to, to, to do the ethical fundraising and, uh, to care about all people in the sector. Um, it’s, it’s now the time to do so for organizations to share with other organizations what works and what doesn’t work for call centers to share their information.

[00:35:05] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, I think it’s, uh, I, I, I know it’s. Difficult topic, but it’s time to do so. We are under pressure. We have to, we have to work together. Um, so that’s, that’s my message, uh, as well.

[00:35:19] Simon Scriver: I love it. And I think you’re leading by example and I’m so happy that you made the time to speak with us and you’ve been, you know, when I’ve seen you speak, you’ve been so open and, and so generous in what you share.

[00:35:29] Simon Scriver: So I’m really, really grateful for that. Amy Jane, and you are going to be speaking at the Fundraising Everywhere telephone fundraising conference, uh, on the 24th of April. Anyone who’s listening that wants to see, uh, uh, hear more from Amy Jane, uh, and see all of our other great speakers that is on the 24th of April, and tickets are available.

[00:35:46] Simon Scriver: You can check the description. Amy Janey, what are you speaking out about? About the conference.

[00:35:51] Amy-Jane Meerman: Yeah. Uh, so firstly, I just want to say thank you so much for how you organize all of this. You have put a lot of, of work in the before, um, the sessions and, and I think that’s so special. Um, so I just want to thank you for, for the guidance, uh, that you give the speakers.

[00:36:09] Amy-Jane Meerman: I, I, I really want to say that as well. Um, what am I speaking, uh, about? So it, it comes back on the same, I’m a people person. I want. Talk about how, how much I love people and how interesting it is to, to connect with people. Uh, but not only this, I think, um, I I wanted to variate a little bit about, uh, about the topic than I already did, uh, in, in session that we were in together.

[00:36:35] Amy-Jane Meerman: Um, but um, yeah, the, the pitfalls and, uh, and. The, the opposite. So the, the wins that you can get out of working with tech. Um, so AI is a very big topic, you know, it’s great and I love it. It’s my best friend, Che Chit. I love Che Chit. Uh, if I, if I work through the, the, the night and, uh, and up till, uh, one or two o’clock, yeah, let’s hip focus, um, then, uh, then that’s my best friend.

[00:37:06] Amy-Jane Meerman: And, and, you know, uh, you get a polite answer back and it’s great and you want it to, to have ideas for scripting or what to talk about in podcast with Simon, then, then it’s just easy. You ask it, you get it back and um, great. But I have seen so many things go around and, uh, many promises made and, uh, and yeah.

[00:37:28] Amy-Jane Meerman: Of course you have wins, big wins, and you have pitfalls. And, um, I think if you are under pressure, then it’s a very, very difficult path. Uh, and, and you don’t know what to choose. So, um, I’m very passionate to talk about that as well because I’ve seen so much in the last four years.

[00:37:45] Simon Scriver: Yeah. Is a, is AI gonna take a, well, no spoilers, you can tell us.

[00:37:49] Simon Scriver: Yeah, it’s

[00:37:49] Amy-Jane Meerman: a spoiler

[00:37:50] Simon Scriver: take over. Telephone fundraising, I feel like. Yeah,

[00:37:52] Amy-Jane Meerman: yeah, yeah. Then you really have to, to visit the session. Uh, yeah, yeah,

[00:37:55] Simon Scriver: yeah. But Amy Jane has, has the answer, so I’m really, I’m so happy that you’re gonna be presenting and thank you so much,

[00:38:02] Amy-Jane Meerman: Amy

[00:38:02] Simon Scriver: Jyn. For anyone listening or watching, where’s the best place to find you?

[00:38:05] Simon Scriver: Do you hang out on social media or LinkedIn, or how do people get in touch with you? Yeah, yeah,

[00:38:09] Amy-Jane Meerman: yeah. LinkedIn, uh, for now it’s LinkedIn. Um, so there you can find me, uh, our website, of course, uh, the crew, Belgium. Uh, and yeah, thank you so much for asking that as well. Uh, you are all welcome to connect, um, because I have a lot of things to tell.

[00:38:26] Simon Scriver: Brilliant. Well, I’m, I’m so glad I’m here to listen to it. So, yeah.

[00:38:29] Amy-Jane Meerman: Thank

[00:38:30] Simon Scriver: you very much, Amy. Jane. Can,

[00:38:32] Amy-Jane Meerman: can I just share one last thing before you end? Um, okay. So the last thing I want to share with the world, uh, is, uh, what I tell all the agents the first day that they begin. This is the place where you are going to discover that there are more good people than bad.

[00:38:49] Amy-Jane Meerman: Uh, and, and that’s how I want to end this, uh, this session.

[00:38:54] Simon Scriver: I love that, Amy Jane and everyone, it’s such a delight. So, great. Thank you very much. And to all of you listeners, I wanna say thank you so much again for tuning in. Uh, whether you’re watching this, uh, listeners to this on the podcast, watching it back somewhere on LinkedIn, um, or maybe you’re watching it, uh, after the conference even, don’t forget the telephone fundraising conferences happening on the 24th of April, and the link for that is in the description.

[00:39:17] Simon Scriver: My name has been and is Simon Scriber. I am one of the co-founders of Fundraising Everwhere. This has been the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Thank you everyone, and have a good day.

[00:35:26] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:35:39] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

*************
This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

00:00:59] Simon Scriver: It is I, a few people have said to me in the past, I like to say this, but that cringe is good, especially in fundraising. Like when things are a bit cheesy, when things are a bit cringey, it seems to make people, I dunno, a bit more open to things or a bit more, I dunno, what do you think? Do you like cringe?

[00:01:10] Alin Dinu: I, I don’t like, and I, I don’t like it. And I think it’s particularly uncomfortable, but it, in a way, it’s a process of growth if framed in the right way. So I’m just, it’s in a way, a little bit like going to the gym. I don’t like necessarily going to the gym, but it feels good afterwards.

[00:01:34] Simon Scriver: That’s good. I like that On, on that note.

[00:01:37] Simon Scriver: Let’s start officially, let’s kick off the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Hello everyone. You’re all very welcome. Uh, my name is Simon Scriver. I am one of the co-founders of Fundraising Everywhere. Um, and I’m speaking to you today. Perhaps you’re watching Live on LinkedIn. If you’re watching Live on LinkedIn, then do feel free to put in a comment, say hello, throw in your questions, throw, throw in your own thoughts as we get this going.

[00:01:57] Simon Scriver: Um, or perhaps you’re listening back on the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. And if you’re listening back to Fundraising Everywhere podcast, then you’re very welcome. Thank you for joining us. Make sure you do subscribe. And do check out everything that’s going on@fundraisingeverywhere.com. Uh, we are coming into the big month of really face-to-face and telephone fundraising.

[00:02:14] Simon Scriver: We seem to be all about face-to-face and telephone fundraising in April. Um, and in particular, we have our face-to-face fundraising conference, which is happening virtually on the 23rd of April. If you haven’t got your tickets for that, you should find a link around here somewhere in the description or go to fundraising everywhere.com.

[00:02:29] Simon Scriver: But we’ll be talking about All Face. Things face-to-face. And then myself and Nikki, we will be heading over to the amazing face-to-face fundraise, international Fundraising Congress, uh, which is happening in Vienna, where I am looking forward to meeting my guest. Face-to-face. Face-to-face at the face-to-face.

[00:02:45] Simon Scriver: Uh, ladies and gentlemen, my guest today is Alan Denu, uh, who, I mean, you are a face-to-face, so you’re all passionate about face-to-face. But Alin, you’re very welcome. Who are you?

[00:02:50] Alin Dinu Hey Simon. Thank you
very much. So my name’s Alan Dinu. Uh, I wake up in the morning in order to inspire people to communicate better so we can feel the world, so we can, uh, build the world filled with nourishing relationship.
The relationships I’ve been into face-to-face since 2016. I started to save the children. It was kind of a little bit of synchronicity. Uh, we found each other on the streets. I, or I was organizing some, uh, events, uh, back then motivational events with this charity that I started, and we kind of fell in love with one another.
They liked my services. Then they found, they found it useful. They invited me to work and that’s where it all started. I just, I just wanna say that, uh, I, uh, I’m gonna buy three tickets for your Congress on the, for your conference on the 23rd of April. And I’m looking forward to meeting you, Nikki, Danny, and, uh, sbe and yeah.

[00:03:51] Simon Scriver: Yeah, I made it. That’s great. Social proof for anyone watching. If, if, if Alan’s buying a ticket, then you surely must buy a ticket. So you got into face to face. You were recruited on the street, like that’s how you. Kind of discovered this career that is face-to-face fundraising is, is from a face-to-face person themselves.
Uh, in a way I was, uh, shifting careers from sales and I was working in like life insurance, life insurances, and I was selling industry products like electrodes, welding wires, stuff like that. And I wasn’t really satisfied because something was missing. And what was missing was exactly the part of, Hey, where’s the contribution part?
I wanna do my part. I wanna, you know, we make the world a better place. Anyway. And one thing, one thing led to another, I started the charity called Anything Is Possible in Romania. It’s called Totally Possible. So anything is possible where we’re supporting. Um. Like, uh, sports people who didn’t have material means, but they were really talented and we were, we were organizing these events where we would, they were all based on mindset.
So, uh, I was searching for charities where I could just offer services, like these mindset services, motivational trainings, and so on. And one day as I was walking down the street, I met the Save the Children fundraise face-to-face team. I just stopped and I said hi, and they invited me to speak with their coordinator, which was this girl back then called Carmen.
Then I invited them to one of my events, and then they just said, Hey, like maybe you want to start working a little bit with our face-to-face team. And I said yes. I, I, I had just learned social dynamics, like it was fresh in my head and like in my bones in a way. And all that I learned from social dynamics was practically almost what face-to-face fundraisers were doing on the streets.
Mm. So we were a perfect match. When I came on board in 2016, there were, I think five people there, four team leaders and one fundraiser. They were having challenges of, uh, recruiting people, but holding them. And one year later when I left, there were, there were about 50 people in the, like nationwide. Wow.
And the team had Korea. Amazingly, in this process, I really fell in love. I mean, I discovered not only that, uh, it’s uh, an industry that I like, but also something that I’m good at. And because it practically makes the world a better place, it’s kind of, I mean, not kind of, it’s my iki guy.

[00:06:20] Simon Scriver: I, I mean, so your role, role now, I mean, what you’ve grown into essentially is you are a co a co.

[00:06:26] Simon Scriver: I mean, you seem to be, have, there’s a number of words that describe what you do, but coaching is a pretty good sense. You are coaching face-to-face fundraisers under your company now, uh, DDO, uh, DDO. And you, you guys basically train up and help people get that mindset, get into a space where they become better face-to-face fundraisers.

[00:06:44] Simon Scriver: Is that what you’re doing? Definitely,
and we’re not only working with fundraisers, but we’re working with leaders and managers as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, practically what we’re doing is every organization and charity, uh, I mean charity and the agency, they, you have as a charity and, uh, NGO, uh, I mean, you have performance goals and in order to achieve these performance goals, you need a few things, but alongside performance, something which is very important is culture.
So you have these two things, culture and performance. So performance is, in my mind, look, looking at it very simplistically, it is about goals. You need to know where you’re going. It’s about mindset. Definitely you need a good mindset in order, in order to achieve those goals. And you need skills like fundraising skills, how to stop people, how to pitch, how to handle objections, or as a manager.
Or leader, how to have one-on-ones, how to facilitate meetings, how to solve conflicts and other stuff like that. So this is the performance side, but also if you’re focusing only on performance, I discovered that it doesn’t really work. I mean it works, but your, the turnover is high and is frustrating and the costs are very high, especially recruitment, recruitment costs.
So we’re also supporting organizations in developing healthy cultures, which is based, like has a basis on values. And healthy relationships. So Jules and I were very complimentary because he’s, he’s, uh, focused on performance and skills and mindset. And my side is how to coach people, how to coach organizations, really developing and strengthening cultures where fundraisers and leaders come to work.
The ideal is with joy and enthusiasm, but at least not to come, like, I have to go to work. No. Like, I wanna go to work.

[00:08:35] Simon Scriver: Mm, there. Do you find there’s a strange clash in, um, in charities because often charities, they, to me, they almost feel like two, two organizations. Sometimes you’ve always got the kind of charitable side of it, but then you’ve got the fundraising side of it, which often feels like it’s, it’s very much its own thing, you know?

[00:08:52] Simon Scriver: And you often hear about rest of an organization clashing with fundraising or almost being embarrassed of fundraising. And especially with face-to-face. We see that worldwide sometimes, like organizations are. Struggle. They struggle to like welcome in their face-to-face and things like this. So when you look, when you see the culture in there, do you see a conflict of cultures between these or how do you manage that, that work you do with fundraising culture plus the culture of being a charitable organization?

[00:09:21] Simon Scriver: Is there a conflict there or is it, does it just work for you?

[00:09:27] Simon Scriver: Okay.
Nice one. So one thing, we’ve been working mostly with face-to-face teams. So on this side, the face-to-face teams are a little bit separate than the The whole organizations. Yeah.

[00:09:43] Simon Scriver: Yeah.
So we’re supporting face-to-face teams to really strengthen their cultures and develop. Uh, healthy relationships so that it’s easy for you to come to work with joy and develop, and then, uh, also achieve your goals.
Step stepping a little, uh, stepping a few steps like, uh, back. Um, yeah, I’ve noticed I. Quite a few times that there’s a little bit of tension between the face-to-face, um, department and the other, uh, departments. But this is happening only when the leaders of the organization don’t know or don’t understand what face-to-face fundraising really is and how valuable it is to the health of the organization.
Yeah. So for. Uh, uh, I worked with this organization that the leader, the, uh, the director, he used to be very connected to the face-to-face industry, so like having this understanding. He was very much well paying, he’s very much welcoming. The, the fundraisers in the whole of the, like the whole of the organization.

[00:10:50] Simon Scriver: Yeah. Yeah. How, how can you, if you are dealing with, um, you know, the people you deal with, you deal, you work with people on all levels, so like junior people who are kind of even on the street now up to management levels. How do you, how do you work with someone if they aren’t supported by that culture around them?

[00:11:09] Simon Scriver: Because I imagine that’s one of the biggest challenges you have is like, you can change and work with people as much as you want, but if they’re in a, in a difficult environment or an environment that doesn’t support their fundraising goals. How do you kind of approach that with them? Do, do they, do you tell ’em to just escape or how can you start to like manage it from within?

[00:11:29] Simon Scriver: So,
uh, yeah, so these are, there are a few nuances here. I think the simplest answer there is, is. Organizations that come to us, they’re in a process of of development. So this process of development means also training. Training doesn’t really work without executive coaching. So in order to change the team culture or the organization culture, we really need, we really need to start from the top, like from the head

[00:11:59] Simon Scriver: it.
So if I’m working with the head of the organization, then, then that’s simpler. I, I mean, they can’t, they can’t go anywhere and their goals are usually. Uh, ES escalated, not escalated. They, they’re the goals of the organization. Yeah. Very tid. Very strongly. Exactly. Exactly. So if I’m working with someone, let’s say underneath that they have issues or challenges in the culture, I.
Like ethically, I just support them achieve their goals. Really, as a coach, this, this means I’m, uh, orienting you, orienting you as my client to really achieve whatever you desire. Mm-hmm. So sometimes, yeah, this means not necessarily encouraging because I’m not encouraging my, my clients are the experts of their lives.
I’m just, just being present with their process and sometimes asking some questions or clarifying some stuff that they say or they want to achieve. Hmm.

[00:12:53] Simon Scriver: What, what do, what do they, I mean these, because you work with a big range of clients, like what, what do they often miss? Do you know, because you, because like you say, it’s, they have the answers within them.

[00:13:02] Simon Scriver: They know themselves best, and you are just kind of drawing that out of them. What have people usually not considered or what’s holding people back from, from achieving these goals that you’re helping them work towards?
I think most often than not, it’s. A place where they feel comfortable and a place where they feel free to express themselves authentically.
So they’re missing confidence and safety. Mm. If you have like, um, yeah. If you have a place where it’s comfortable for you to express yourself authentically and you enjoy coming there, most often than not, you’ll start moving to. Exploring your potential rather than if it’s a place where you have to go there, you are not let paid enough.
Uh, the boss or the manager or the leader always presses you, you know, Hey, you haven’t done that, you haven’t done that. It’s always about the results that you, what you haven’t done. Then there’s, I’ve seen that there’s no real place of, Hey, who am I in this process? What do I bring to the table?

[00:14:08] Simon Scriver: Ha.

[00:14:11] Simon Scriver: Why is that? Is it, is it a fear? It’s a fear from leadership. It’s a fear from leadership of losing control or of thing. You know, I mean, is it the same symptom we see in face-to-face where people are afraid of what’s being said on the street instead of letting their face-to-face be themselves? And, and I agree with you like very often, like as, as you let people.

[00:14:34] Simon Scriver: Have creative control and let people be themselves, like the results shine through. But how do you balance that with the leadership who you know that, especially the old school, you know, the old fashioned kind of organizations who’ve been there a while or someone’s been in the role for, they hold onto these things and they don’t want to allow that breathing space is, I mean, is that something that can be changed in a culture or are you doomed if you have that around you?
Are we speaking about people who would like to change and understand the consequences of a healthy culture? Or are we, are we speaking about giants, uh, dinosaurs who are just waiting to, let’s say, just move on?

[00:15:11] Simon Scriver: It’s interesting, I dunno, because I mean, if you ask any of these people, they’ll all say they’re open to change and we embrace change and, you know, we are looking to the future and things like this.

[00:15:23] Simon Scriver: We, we’ve read the mission and the vision and the values of all these organizations. Like they’re all saying they embrace the future. But when you think about the star, the people who are listening to this, like I, I would, I would be willing to bet there’s more than a handful who are working in organizations where they feel they have no, no freedom, no freedom.
And it’s sad when this happens.
So, again, some nuances here. If I’m looking from a, from the perspective of the person, like let’s say this quote unquote dinosaur, right? A person who they think they know better. They, they have this, they have, maybe they have, they’ve had, they’ve had a few good results in the past. But times have changed and they haven’t changed to keep up with the new times.
Right? What’s new now? And they’re not willing to adapt or to be flexible or to just improve a little bit, like communication wise, maybe some skills, leadership skills, management skills, whatever it’s needed for that project. Uh, if I was managing this person. I would take every situation by hand. So if he was working for me, let’s say I’m the, the senior manager, and they would be the mid, uh, mid-level manager, I would just delegate and I would just, what’s the word?
Um, set healthy boundaries.

[00:16:57] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm.
I wouldn’t allow this type of people that much freedom. So this is what you need to do. You need to do it this way in order for fundraisers or in order to create a healthy culture. Healthy culture. What’s happening when they’re the boss, right? When they’re the manager and you know, I’m stuck in a place where I don’t want to be.
Well, that really depends on you if I was there. I really appreciate freedom and I really appreciate, appreciate creativity and being able to express myself. I would probably search for something else, but, but, but before searching for something else, I, I would make sure that I give my best. I mean, 1, 1, 1 thing here that, you know, Jules is, uh, really teaching very well is mindset.
And one of the, uh, things about mindset is how to change your state. So one criteria of change criteria, uh, or tool to change your, your state is in, uh, inner dialogue, which practically is reframing. So let’s say, you know, my boss is really like, is really cutting me short. Hey Alin, you haven’t done that.
You haven’t done this, this, you’re behind on that thing, whatever. Like, uh, not allowing me any breathing time. So if I’m really dedicated and I’m like, and my way of growing, uh, I might ask myself from time to time, how is this situation the best teacher for me right now? How is this? Think how is the situation or the relationship helping me achieve my goals or become the person that I want to become?
Mm. And sometimes I’m changing, and in the process of me changing, they change as well. Or after I change a little bit or more, uh, either I discover a new, a new job or a new job discovers me. Either way, this is the best scenario.

[00:18:41] Simon Scriver: I mean, I, I’ve had some terrible bus buses in the past and I, I mean, I will say one thing I learned a lot.

[00:18:46] Simon Scriver: Like I learned a lot. That’s my positive. I have a great, I have a great bus these days and I have to say, um. I wanna, I wanna ask you then, in terms of trying to be a bit more positive in terms of what, what good looks like in, in your experience? Um, uh, with Ddo Ddo face-to-face training, that’s DIDO if anyone is looking for it.

[00:19:07] Simon Scriver: Um, and do follow Alin on, on LinkedIn. Alin’s vocal on link LinkedIn, so he is, he’s definitely worth follow. Um, but in the, in the organizations that you guys have worked with, what, what does a successful program look like? Like what is the structure of that? What’s. You know what signs of good,
uh, there are a few signs. The easiest from my perspective is when fundraisers and leaders enjoy coming to work. Another one is when people spend time outside of work. I think maybe this is one of the, the, the most confident signs that you have a good culture. People go out, have a beer, spend time, go partying, whatever, go fishing to each their own.
So this is one thing. And when it comes to the architecture, there are three elements that I discovered, really build a healthy culture. One is having regular team meetings. When you do team meetings. Regularly, either weekly, I, uh, I have a friend who’s doing them daily, but they’re shorter, maybe bimonthly, whatever works for you and for you, the format of your organization, what’s happening in, during the, the team meetings, if you facilitate them right then this helps, uh, fundraisers and people participating really bond.
Once they bond, it’s really, it becomes much more easier for you either to lead them wherever you want to lead them. I mean, achieving your goals, definitely. Or. Setting some healthy boundaries and. Development also happens during the team meetings if you are willing to train what the team needs right now.
And I’d like to discuss a little bit here because there’s that, uh, I’m sure most of the people looking at us right now, where in the future they know about the four stages of forming teams, which is forming. Storming, norming and performing. And anyway, there’s a journey as well. So a clever leader, I think a person who really wants to facilitate for the betterment of the team.
They look at their team, where the team is right now, either forming, storming, norming, or or performing, and they facilitate the team exactly with what they need, not what they think they need. I wouldn’t have, uh, to, I wouldn’t bring get, to, get to know exercises to a performing team because it would be boring.
Mm-hmm. At the same time, I wouldn’t bring, you know, high level trainings or high level skills or challenging people from. Like a forming stage with something that they don’t know. They don’t really know how everything works. They don’t know their roles in the team yet. There’s still a few stages that they need to, let’s say, conquer.
So this is one thing, and also the four elements that really make up a good team meeting is, are actually fun. We need people to have fun. You need people to grow. So facilitate something, bring something that they, they grow, uh, make sure. You set and review goals, this helps a lot. And one thing that I’m really proud of discovering, I call the minutes, minutes of virtue.
So I make sure that almost ev, I mean, everybody gets to hear their voice during the team meetings,

[00:22:27] Simon Scriver: and
I have 10 to 15 minutes a slot. Aimed exactly for people to vent. So really, and I have this, this structure, uh, nonviolent structure or LET, whatever, it’s something that I’ve developed, developed over the years and sometimes there’s a lot coming, you know, popping out.
We set for 15 minutes and we end up like, um. Venting for 45 minutes and sometimes we sit 14, uh, 10 to 15 minutes in silent silence. And I make sure to tell, to tell them that. I know that sometimes when you sit in silence, you might feel uncomfortable or cringe as we said, uh, a little bit in the beginning, but being able to sit in silence with someone and, you know, um, not taking out your phone or not, you know, think about something else.
Yeah. That. Increases the intimacy. Intimacy level.

[00:23:21] Simon Scriver: Yeah. So
I practically, it helps a lot. It helps with lowering the conflict levels, uh, or number of the conflicts of conflicts. And also it increases, you know, people being, becoming more comfortable with one another. I.

[00:23:35] Simon Scriver: Yeah, I think that, I think, I mean, I, I’m a man who loves to vent and I could do it most of the day, but I think, I think there is that, that notion that you, you know, meetings and stuff can get littered with venting and you, you find yourself just venting throughout it.

[00:23:47] Simon Scriver: So I actually really like the idea of creating a space for it to like, get it done. And like you said, there’ll be times where you realize. This isn’t worth bringing up. I’m just venting about it. ’cause it’s part of our conversation almost. But actually this isn’t really an issue. It’s just like, this is our job.

[00:24:02] Simon Scriver: This is something we’re working through. So I quite like that. Alin, you strike me as a man who en who gets up every morning and enjoys going to work. Do you enjoy your job?

[00:24:10] Alin Dinu: I really enjoy my job. I mean, I’ve done this when I work for Save the Children, I’ve done this. A little bit without being the, getting paid.
And even if I would win the lottery, I would still do work in face-to-face fundraising. It’s really my iki guy. I mean, uh, it’s all about communication. It’s about, uh, contributing, uh, people grow and yeah, it, I forgot the other element of eki. I, but definitely it’s, it’s, uh, ticks off all the elements.

[00:24:40] Simon Scriver: I love it.

[00:24:40] Simon Scriver: I love to see, I love to see a man who’s passionate about this job. How would your coworkers describe you? How would your business partner describe you?
Perseverant, first of all?

[00:24:49] Simon Scriver: Yeah.
This, this is one thing. Uh, I’m very resourceful. I mean, if you are working with me, definitely I’m finding solutions to whatever, like what the, the challenge, what challenges might appear.
Uh, I’m, some people would say I’m very communicative. I mean, not talkative, but you know. Uh, I think listening is my strong point.

[00:25:11] Simon Scriver: Hmm.
So when my friends, or my coworkers, or the people that I work with, uh, chat, most of them, I hope, you know, I’m not mistaken. I, I hope they feel understood. And this, like, I, I really, uh.
Beyond all of this, like beyond the fundraising and the growth and everything that we’re doing, I strive to really develop relationships, first of all.

[00:25:38] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm. There’s a real skill in, in that, you know, in that listening, that building relationship, that empathy, do you know, which I think is, it serves people in face to face and, and fundraising general serves ’em very well.

[00:25:49] Simon Scriver: But it’s lacking in, uh, you know, in a lot of places. And sometimes it, it can be a real challenge, but it’s, it’s been such a pleasure chatting to you. So I’m gonna see you face to face in person at the International F two F Fundraising Congress, uh, which is happening in April in Vienna, uh, in Australia.

[00:26:05] Simon Scriver: You were there last time. You enjoy it? I was there. Yeah. I loved
it. Uh, a funny story, something very funny that happened last Congress. I came there, uh, I was really searching for a partner, uh, a partner that, someone that I would offer value, you know, I would be able to contribute with, uh, internationally.

[00:26:28] Simon Scriver: Yeah. And
there, like one of the workshops, uh, I met Jules there and we chatted a little bit out like, uh, in the hotel area. I shared a little, a little bit about who I am, you know, what I was doing, how I’m focusing on the process. He also shared about, you know, focusing on the process and trusting the process with his own clients that he had as a consultant back then.
So we ended up like. Connecting and also continuing to connect after the conference like once per week. And what began as a one or two hours, uh, short meetings every week, uh, ended up becoming a business that were working, uh, weekly and were having clients and were supporting and or developing, uh, materials.
And our dream is to really build. A digital platform where fundraisers and leaders have on demand training exactly for what they need based on micro learnings, which I think is one of the things that are. State-of-the-art and training right now?

[00:27:29] Simon Scriver: Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, I’m hearing a lot of echoes, so it’d be good to chat.

[00:27:32] Simon Scriver: ’cause I, I met my business partner Nikki, uh, at a conference years ago and we set up fundraising everywhere.com. Um, and so for anyone listening to watching this, you can find learnings online, uh, including our virtual face-to-face fund, ring fundraising conference, which is coming up on the 23rd of April.

[00:27:49] Simon Scriver: Um, so if you can’t make it in person to Vienna. For the International Congress, then the Fundraising Everywhere Conference is happening at the end of April too. Grab your tickets there. Um, go over to fundraising everywhere.com and you can see all of the events we’ve got coming up. But Alin, that’s it.

[00:28:03] Simon Scriver: Where can people find you? Where’s your social, social media of choice these days? Are you a LinkedIn man, guys?

[00:28:10] Alin Dinu: I’m a LinkedIn man. I also have a, uh, an Instagram, uh, account. It’s called the Face-to-Face Coach. Also, we have a website. Which is ddo face-to-face dot com, so, or ddo f two f.com where, uh, there’s a lot of resources. You can take some of, uh, leadership assessments or fundraising assessments. It’s very simple to use and also if you get on there, you might find something that you might be valuable.

[00:28:36] Simon Scriver: Amazing. Yeah, I do encourage people to check it out. Alin, so lovely to see you. Thank you for being on this. Really lovely to, to chat to you and to anyone watching.

[00:28:44] Simon Scriver: Uh, my name is Simon Scriver. I am the co-founder of Fundraising Everywhere. It’s been lovely talking to you Again. If you’re not already subscribed to the podcast or following us on LinkedIn, then please do. Um, and also head over to fundraising everwhere.com where you’ll find all of our events coming up, uh, including, as I said, the face-to-face fundraising conference happening in April.

[00:29:01] Simon Scriver: But that’s me, that’s Simon saying goodbye. Have a good day. I’m grateful to be here. Grateful to chat to you all. Uh, take care everyone.

[00:35:26] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:35:39] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

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This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:00:59] Daryl Upsall: Welcome everybody. Great to, to see you all again. Uh, we’re here to, uh, have a global conversation and learn some lessons around the world with a, with a wonderful panel from Portugal, from Mexico, from Spain, and collectively the panel has experienced in, well, more than 50, 60 countries, I think, in terms of, uh, face-to-face fundraising and, and individual giving fundraising.

[00:01:25] Daryl Upsall: So. Let’s kick off. Let’s get going. So, Filipa, introduce yourself please.

[00:01:32] Filipa Morais: Hi everyone. Uh, it’s KU to be here today. Uh, I’m Filipa, uh, I work for Children Villages International. Uh, but I’m based in Lisbon and, uh, my role is, uh, being Global Advisor, global fundraising advisor for acquisition at this amazing organization.

[00:01:50] Daryl Upsall: Thanks, Jamal.

[00:01:52] Jamal Monteilh: Hi, I’m Jamal Monteilh. I am the owner of two, uh, face-to-face fundraising agencies, one based in New York called One Voice Fundraising and one based here in Mexico called One Voice Latino America. Excited to be here.

[00:02:07] Daryl Upsall: Thanks, Jamal and Juan.

[00:02:09] Juan Edelshein: Hi, my name is Juan Edelshein. I’m the director of International Fundraising.

[00:02:13] Juan Edelshein: I’m Mexican, but I’m in in Madrid, missing. My land where Jamal is.

[00:02:21] Daryl Upsall: Fantastic. Well, let’s just get an overview to begin with. Uh, let’s get a sense of, you know, what is the current situation of face-to-face, uh, in the countries you are operating in currently. Is there a big variation between say, the US and and Mexico?

[00:02:36] Daryl Upsall: Jamal? Sure.

[00:02:38] Jamal Monteilh: I mean, we’re seeing a lot of the same challenges and opportunities in, in those markets and, um, you know, I think the, just generally, you know, we’ve, we’ve gotten back to a really healthy space, uh, for us that was, you know, getting through Covid and getting back to these times. It’s really exciting for me, kind of being a space where I feel like face-to-face is in a good place in those markets that I’m working in.

[00:03:00] Daryl Upsall: Cool. Sounds good. Filipa, how about Portugal and the whole world more or less with SS, children’s villages?

[00:03:07] Filipa Morais: Yeah, so we are doing face-to-face in around 55 countries probably this year. 57 countries, actually. New markets, uh, we are aiming to launch face-to-face in Switzerland, but also Nigeria, Kenya, what’s one in India.

[00:03:21] Filipa Morais: So I’m super excited about these ones. Yeah. Um, and of course we have. Face a lot of challenges, but also a lot of opportunities, uh, like these new countries coming in and teach us, uh, that face-to-face is more alive than ever.

[00:03:35] Daryl Upsall: Fantastic. Great to hear. Juan, how about you? You covered several countries in your brief.

[00:03:40] Daryl Upsall: I.

[00:03:41] Juan Edelshein: Yeah, we’re in, in many countries, in Latin America and in Spain, and it’s a, it’s a catchy question because face-to-face is basically the same everywhere, but every country has its issues. Issues, as Jamal said. And every country has its characteristics, but we’re working on it and results are coming. So I think, I think everything is okay in, in every country, even though the weather is not very good in some of them.

[00:04:06] Juan Edelshein: But we’re, we’re doing fine.

[00:04:09] Daryl Upsall: Yeah, it’s interesting speaking with all of you in the past and other colleagues. Face-to-face seems to work everywhere. I, I’ve seen it in operation in China, even briefly in Russia, though sadly not anymore. So just these tweaking, it seems to work everywhere. I guess the biggest, you know, elephant in the room in the last 10 years in terms of face-to-face was certainly covid.

[00:04:31] Daryl Upsall: The pandemic really threw everything out and everything up in the air. Post Covid or during Covid, did that lead you as your teams, your companies, to adopt new technologies? Was there something more that helped you integrate across other channels like digital or telephone? Tell me sort of some ideas about what you did and what you think we’ve learned from Covid.

[00:04:56] Daryl Upsall: Starting with you, Juan.

[00:04:58] Juan Edelshein: So it, it changed a lot of things internally for us. So most of the, of the trainings and the meetings are now held on, on digital platforms, so we don’t see each other internally so much. That help us because we can manage more countries and more territory from, from a single location.

[00:05:19] Juan Edelshein: However, externally it hasn’t changed that much because in the end it’s face-to-face and the name defines it. So you can’t, if you do something else, something digital, something telephone, then it’s not face-to-face. You’re doing something else. So externally, it hasn’t changed us a lot. We’re, we’re learning from the new technologies.

[00:05:42] Juan Edelshein: We’re learning for new, from new things, but it’s face to face. Yeah.

[00:05:48] Daryl Upsall: I agree. Jamal, how about you?

[00:05:51] Jamal Monteilh: I think the, the two biggest things, one obviously completely agree with Juan, um, is, uh, like having that conversation with our fundraisers pretty much on a regular basis. That hey, this is some promise. You know, we get to go out and talk to people, but you know, the world shut down before, and if someone had told me pre covid, Hey, there’s gonna come a day where you might not be able to go out and do this.

[00:06:10] Jamal Monteilh: How would you have, you know, how would I have approached that day? So I think that’s something that informs our fundraisers. Like this is really a special opportunity to go out and speak to people face to face. And as Juan said, uh, forcing me an analog guy living in this digital world, uh, to get in and be more accessible, to use the technology that kind of came into our, our sphere.

[00:06:29] Jamal Monteilh: And so now I’m more accessible to my teams in New York or in Mexico than I ever have been before, which I think is great.

[00:06:37] Daryl Upsall: Fantastic. Thanks Jamal. Filipa.

[00:06:40] Filipa Morais: So for us, it’s more or less the same and actually the, even after Covid, yes, there was like a lot of new things that we changed, but then after some months we back to the, to the basic.

[00:06:51] Filipa Morais: Um, but of course the now we are using more technology and, uh, having more trainings on digital online platforms. So everything more connected, I’ll say, and more people connected with each other. Um, but uh, face to face. Remains the same. So, you know, don’t need to change a lot of things, uh, to keep having good results.

[00:07:11] Filipa Morais: Definitely.

[00:07:13] Daryl Upsall: I get the impression the biggest changes were the invisible changes, the back of office, the technologies, the processing, all of that. But face, two face, and I’m really, really. Strong on using face-to-face, not street. Not door to door. I’ve never seen a door talk to another door. Maybe somebody has doors generally don’t talk.

[00:07:33] Daryl Upsall: They’re like, listen. Um, so I’m really pleased You’re both emphasizing. It’s all about being face to face. It’s a conversation. It’s a dialogue. Um, but continuing on that, that change, are there any kind of longer term structural changes that you are making now or thinking of making? To secure the long term of face-to-face.

[00:07:56] Daryl Upsall: Um, yeah, again, Juan, give me your thoughts on that. What are you gonna change in the future?

[00:08:04] Juan Edelshein: We’ve tried to professionalize, if that’s a word, that’s the problem of speaking a second language. The, the position, the face-to-face position. Because for many years it was like a, like a passage, like a, like a lifesaver, no, nothing to, to be continuous in time.

[00:08:27] Juan Edelshein: Now we, we have professionalized that position and we’re. Having facers, specifically Facers, not team leaders, not managers, just people on the street, uh, trying to make donors that have been with us for over 10 years. So we’re paying higher salaries. We’re looking for people of, of all ages. We have a, a team in Barcelona that averages, uh, 48 years I think.

[00:08:55] Juan Edelshein: So we’re, we’re trying to, to do that and, and to make it a, a, a very professional profession, if I can say that, uh, for, for the future. So people look up to, to be a facer, not just something to go by.

[00:09:12] Daryl Upsall: Interesting. Jamal, how about you?

[00:09:15] Jamal Monteilh: So, uh, I think most importantly for us is, you know, the quality of the product that we are, we’re returning to our charity partners.

[00:09:22] Jamal Monteilh: So we just continue to focus on how we can better have those conversations so that we’re retaining donors at the highest possible level for our charities. And I think continuing to learn from our colleagues around the world, uh, things that they’re doing, that they’re innovating, that they’re trying, uh, to make sure that we’re getting that return.

[00:09:38] Jamal Monteilh: ’cause I feel like that’s the long-term health. Face to face is we can continue to improve retention of those donors. Organizations will continue to be excited to partner with us. So for me, that’s the most important thing in terms of long-term structural change, is continuing to keep our focus really simply in that space.

[00:09:56] Jamal Monteilh: And that for me, it keeps, it’ll, there will always be opportunity in that space for us as an organization.

[00:10:03] Daryl Upsall: Thanks a.

[00:10:05] Filipa Morais: Yeah, so, uh, I couldn’t agree more, but, uh, for us it’s, um, we have now a big focus on the retention parts, even for the in-house teams because yes, face-to-face keeps the biggest channels, uh, channel for us in terms of volume, but we cannot, uh, something that covid show us.

[00:10:21] Filipa Morais: It’s, that’s, uh, we need to work more as a team. So we have a lot of teams right now in different office that, um, work closely, uh, in terms of face-to-face, in terms of digital, in terms of loyalty. And this, uh, it’s very interesting because, uh, even in Portugal that I’m, I’m here right now, it is, uh, this office.

[00:10:39] Filipa Morais: And I’m thinking that now we, you have the digital team working with the loyalty and the face-to-face team, uh, to get the best. Uh, donor journey hover that they are building, you know? So, um, now what I can see is that, uh, the teams are more open to have this close work and that you can have better retention and better results if you work together.

[00:10:59] Filipa Morais: So yes, uh, some structural changes in terms of mindset and in terms of teams also,

[00:11:05] Daryl Upsall: but makes complete sense what you’re all saying. I mean, I recall 10 years ago, or even perhaps earlier saying. It shouldn’t be about volume. And I have to say, everybody was obsessed with volume. We gotta get more through the door.

[00:11:18] Daryl Upsall: Even the language was what’s your spend? What? What? You know, what can you get out there? And it should be focused. And I hear nowadays all the time, it’s about quality. It’s the quality of the recruiter, the quality of the recruitment, and the quality of the ongoing conversation. I guess because it’s a conversation.

[00:11:36] Daryl Upsall: And, and to that end, and this is a conference that involves telephone and. Face to, to what degree does the continued conversation via the telephone, uh, play a role in, in your face-to-face programs? Philip?

[00:11:53] Filipa Morais: So, uh, what, um, telephone is very important actually. And after Covid we did a lot of change during Covid and after Covid, and we have a lot of, uh, faces, uh, starting to be telemarketers.

[00:12:06] Filipa Morais: For instance, we started, uh, a lot of in-house that we keep having them. Uh, growing with amazing campaigns and they work very close right now, like the Facers and the telemarketers work very close with the same trainings, also with the loyalty team, uh, with trainings, uh, from loyalty team. And we have a concept that, um, I think it was, uh, SOS Childrens Village.

[00:12:27] Filipa Morais: Croatia that create this concept that we are having in multiple countries that we had called, um, global Facer Concept is a facer that can work on face-to-face, street, face-to-face, door to door. It can be telemarketer. So we are ready, uh, to, and we are prepared to have this. People, they are very keen to, to work for SOS, um, not only in the streets, but also on telemarketing.

[00:12:51] Filipa Morais: And you have people doing welcome calls and a close relationship even for the donor journey as I I, as I said before. So we are more connected and it’s very important to have this connection, to have the better, uh, retention, uh, possible.

[00:13:08] Daryl Upsall: That makes me really happy. ’cause I remember training your colleagues in Ava must have been 15 years ago about integrating telephone and face to face.

[00:13:17] Daryl Upsall: So the fact that the Croatian team is coming up with that model makes me super happy. Jamal, how about you? Yeah. First of all, I

[00:13:25] Jamal Monteilh: wanna say I love everything that you just said, Felipa. Just, you know, you’ve said in the last two questions, like how you continuing to break down those silos and get people cross working together to get a better result.

[00:13:34] Jamal Monteilh: I think that’s amazing. Telephone doesn’t play a huge role in our, in our current operations. Um, but it is something that I’m grateful for in terms of how our partners use it, because we get that feedback so fast that we can give that feedback to the fundraisers so fast, and that helps to inform their decisions as they work in, in the face-to-face basis.

[00:13:53] Jamal Monteilh: Uh, so I think that’s, you know, that’s pretty much our, our space with, with telephone at this point.

[00:13:58] Daryl Upsall: Cool. Well, Juan, you, you work right next to the call center that’s talking to the donors recruited in Spain. So tell us how it integrates in, in, in Spain and May and in the rest of the world. It may be different in Latin America,

[00:14:11] Juan Edelshein: in, in all our work in, in all the countries we’re working in, we make the welcome call.

[00:14:15] Juan Edelshein: So we are integrated with, with telephone. We haven’t been able to do what Philippa says. That that’s the ideal to, to have someone go from, from one technique to the other. We, we haven’t been able to do that. We did it during covid. We sent fundraisers to their house to, well face-to-face fundraisers to their house, to be tele marketeers, and it was successful.

[00:14:39] Juan Edelshein: Now everybody’s doing their own job. The, the people on the phone is on the phone. The people on the street is on the street, but. Uh, sadly, we, we kept, uh, not, not sadly because we kept, uh, a team on the phone in Spain, but we kept it because we’re, we’re still scared about covid, so we we’re trying to have a window open in case a door closes in the future.

[00:15:04] Juan Edelshein: So. We are still having people doing face to that used to be face-to-face people doing telephone. So in case we need to, to move someone in the future, we, we can do it as Philipp is explaining. That’s, that’s the ideal.

[00:15:21] Daryl Upsall: That’s, that’s an interesting concept. You know, we, thankfully we see Covid as behind us, but if it’s taught as a lesson collectively, I think it’s.

[00:15:30] Daryl Upsall: Be prepared. You know, I have to have this Boy scout, uh, image from Be Powell, which motto is, be prepared. We need to be prepared and ready to pirouette, twist, flip, change rapidly. So I guess that’s one of the lessons we’ve taken from last Covid, who knows what the next challenge may be. The challenge that’s really current and faces you all absolutely is the challenge of recruiting.

[00:15:56] Daryl Upsall: Fundraisers, recruiting staff to do face to face. How are you addressing that? What, how are you overcoming, and perhaps if you wanna describe the challenge you have, how about you, Jamal?

[00:16:08] Jamal Monteilh: Sure. I mean, for us it’s, it’s, honestly, it’s constantly a moving target. I. And we’re constantly looking to tweak parts of our processes.

[00:16:15] Jamal Monteilh: We’re looking for breaks in the chain, small tweaks that we can make along the way, uh, from, you know, the quality of the, the call, the first call that we make, the applicants that we’re getting in the break points, that people showing up to those interviews, uh, how those interviews are conducted. So we just look at every single part of the chain along the way and look for every opportunity to improvement, to improve it.

[00:16:39] Daryl Upsall: Interesting. It’s funny how the phrase no show used to talk about, refer to donors. Now no show is often used when people don’t show up for interview.

[00:16:50] Daryl Upsall: How about you, Felipe? How are you getting to deal with those challenges? And we know from other conversations it’s a huge challenge.

[00:16:56] Filipa Morais: Yes. I think it’s like the biggest one and it’s for SUS. So, um, and for me, and uh, for me being creative is the key. Because there is no solution, like the perfect solution, and people are, are always like looking at the perfect solution to have more people to work on face-to-face.

[00:17:14] Filipa Morais: There is no perfect solution. But the teams that I see, they are more creative, more open to hear new ideas, um, change from the plan A to plan B very quickly. Again, even on this. Part of the face recruitment, face-to-face fundraising, recruitment are the best ones. Uh, to have the best people and to have more people.

[00:17:33] Filipa Morais: And you need to be very resilient. And, um, we have already test a lot of things. I think, uh, we have older faces in some countries they are hiring new. Um, but it’s difficult in some other markets. But one thing that we are testing, uh, at SOS, um, Spain. One of our biggest, uh, the biggest in-house teams with amazing energy, uh, and super innovative.

[00:17:57] Filipa Morais: They, they have this energy. They are testing to do the face-to-face fundraising interviews in the streets near an amazing face-to-face team. So I’m going, I, I, I, I’m looking forward to hearing more about this. Uh, but I think it’s incredible just to be, to have this open mind to new ideas that could be completely crazy, but at the end of the day, there could be a.

[00:18:18] Filipa Morais: A good solution for, for, for these challenge that we have right now. So yeah, being creative and have an open mind, uh, I think is at least, uh, uh, the two points that, uh, to have a, a good recruitment process,

[00:18:32] Daryl Upsall: it’s never business as usual, is it’s

[00:18:35] Filipa Morais: no solution.

[00:18:37] Daryl Upsall: One you mentioned earlier about remuneration and benefits or.

[00:18:40] Daryl Upsall: Yeah, improving for the face-to-face fundraisers and also the, the different generation teams. Can you tell us a little bit how that’s actually working and what impact it’s having?

[00:18:51] Juan Edelshein: It’s, it’s working very well. Obviously depends on the country. There are countries that are more difficult. Mexico is really difficult to recruit.

[00:18:59] Juan Edelshein: Other countries are much easier, but I think it’s. It’s like Felipa says, and, and like the movie says everything everywhere, all at once. So you need to do influencers, social networks, uh, I don’t know, classical websites. Do interviews on the street, do interviews on the, on the office, do online interviews.

[00:19:22] Juan Edelshein: You need to try everything and then, and then try to be flexible and let every team leader, every manager work as, as it suits them best. Some people like to be in the office sitting quietly with, with another person. I have people that, that make the interviews online with Zoom, with maybe five or six, uh, people at the time, and they get results.

[00:19:46] Juan Edelshein: So we let them try anything and then supervise and see the results and then afterwards, uh, help them take the the best path.

[00:19:57] Daryl Upsall: It’s interesting hearing, hearing you all describe this. It’s, there is definitely no one size fits all and it seems to vary country, organization, age, band, and I think that’s one of the joys I’m seeing from face to face having been involved from the beginning is I.

[00:20:14] Daryl Upsall: This constant change is probably the most tested fundraising tool out there other than maybe digital. So you can tweak quickly, but what, yeah, testing and trying, it’s really creative. I’m, I’m really enjoying it. And, and I guess just adding onto that, you mentioned earlier, Juan, something about, um, people who’ve been with the organization 10, 12 years or whatever.

[00:20:37] Daryl Upsall: Uh, I throw it to you back to start with you, Jamal, is there anything that probably in your New York teams that you’ve done to kind of retain and create career paths? Because if I look at everybody on the screen here, myself included, we’ve all done face-to-face, we’ve been on the street, and yet I look around the fundraising world and I say, my God, that fundraising director’s an ex face to facer.

[00:21:00] Daryl Upsall: How are you going about creating career paths Maybe. Start with you, Jamal, I think.

[00:21:05] Jamal Monteilh: No, that’s a great question. Thank you, Daryl. So I think for, for us, especially in New York, ’cause that’s our, that’s our oldest program is the, the core basics. A face-to-face fundraiser comes into this job is they really wanna make a difference and they really want to grow, whether that’s into a new role or just they want to grow into new abilities and new knowledge.

[00:21:24] Jamal Monteilh: So we just continue to foster that on a day, daily basis and create that culture where there’s an excitement to learn and excitement to grow. And I think that really helps us to retain people. I think most importantly is also to give ownership, to give them opportunities to take something and make it their own.

[00:21:41] Jamal Monteilh: So we constantly look at like, how can we better do that? How can we, you know, maybe foster that in some other new ways? And I think that does a great service. You know, we have staff that’s been with us since day one, uh, that are still with us today, which is, you know, for me, I feel very grateful for.

[00:21:56] Filipa Morais: Yeah.

[00:21:57] Daryl Upsall: How about you?

[00:21:58] Filipa Morais: Yes, I think it’s so, it’s super difficult to retain facers in, in a lot of, uh, countries in a lot of markets. But, uh, I think it was now we have more countries, uh, uh, thinking ways of retaining these, uh, these facers and be used to have a lot of, uh, examples like, uh, again, I’m, I’m going for Portugal ’cause I’m here and it’s easier.

[00:22:17] Filipa Morais: But, uh, we used to have a niche training of face-to-face if it’s online or not. Uh, we always have the example from different people on the team that started on face-to-face. So you can, you can have like a career here, so they know they can study as a face and then be, then become a team leader. And then maybe they can go and join the loyalty team, or maybe they can be a director of fundraising team or a global advisor.

[00:22:43] Filipa Morais: So we have this, uh, this, uh, sharing of experience, uh, to, to, to feel, uh, them like, you can grow here and this is a career. So yeah, we, we are having more of that nowadays in more countries.

[00:22:56] Daryl Upsall: Sounds great. Definitely. Well, I recall with your teams a few years ago, we have videos that we, we saw across the organizations that we’re involved with just face-to-face saying, we like this, we enjoy our jobs.

[00:23:09] Daryl Upsall: We have a career here. And I recall we did that as well at the Vienna conference, the virtual conference. You know, the faces themselves, making messages, anything like that still going on in Spain or in Mexico or other countries quite that face-to-face is motivating face-to-face, as it were.

[00:23:25] Juan Edelshein: Yeah. It, it helps a lot and we, we make a lot of integration between the countries we’re working in because sharing experiences and.

[00:23:34] Juan Edelshein: And knowing that there’s another person 10,000 kilometers away, having the same problems that you have, gives you some, some perspective and helps you to work. And in addition to, to what filippa and Jamal were saying, we’re also trying to, to adapt to. A new, new profile of people that doesn’t want to grow that much in the organization and doesn’t want to have so much money.

[00:24:00] Juan Edelshein: But what they want is flexibility with their life and to have enough money to to live and to do what they like. So. We’re now doing stuff like if you reach your goal, maybe you don’t work a couple of days next week, instead of giving you money or instead of paying a trip, it’s free time and we’re paying with free time.

[00:24:20] Juan Edelshein: And a lot of people value that and that help us retain people in, in different countries very, very well.

[00:24:28] Daryl Upsall: Very, yeah. That’s interesting. Sounds very Gen Z. You know, where people are looking for the balance rather than just, it’s a bit more muddy in my pocket. Um, cool. I mean, going back on the generation thing as well, what’s the current typical profile of the donors that are being recruited in terms of age, gender, or whatever?

[00:24:46] Daryl Upsall: Um, is there a particular profile you’re looking for? Does it vary country to country or even location or? What are you looking for typically start with you Philippa.

[00:24:57] Filipa Morais: So it’s, um, of course it depends on the marketing region. We have different, uh, uh, different donors, I would say, but usually our donors used to be, and typically, uh, in, in general way, uh, used to be more women than men.

[00:25:13] Filipa Morais: Nowadays, I think in some countries, I think now I, I, I’m sure that in some countries it’s changing, uh, and we have more or less the same, uh, percentage of men and women coming to, uh, as a donor through face-to-face. So this is very interesting. And of course we have some exceptions, like I was thinking about like Al for instance, where we have more men donating than women.

[00:25:34] Filipa Morais: So there is a lot of different things going on. Um, but I would say like typically more women or. Nowadays more equal, I would say. Okay. Uh, and in terms of age, um. In Asia. In Asia, we are not super strong on face. Face. We don’t have a lot of markets doing, but step by step we are going there and we have big teams there also, but we have a lot of donors under 30 and we are dealing with some attrition, uh, problems.

[00:26:03] Filipa Morais: Mm-hmm. Um, but for most of the countries, most of our donors are more than 30 years old, so yes, it’s, and it’s our target. That’s ones that, yeah. Have it definitely more than 30 years old, not because I remember,

[00:26:18] Daryl Upsall: I remember when we first set up face to face in Vienna many years ago, my boss said, Greenpeace is becoming like gray piece.

[00:26:25] Daryl Upsall: We need to get younger donors. The trouble was we were too young. We were recruited to you. So they came in. They came out because they didn’t have the, the financial means to carry on. So, you know, and an interesting view, Jamal, yeah. You are recruiting, for example, in New York and you’re recruited in Mexico.

[00:26:42] Daryl Upsall: You must be seeing. Profile donors that you’re even looking for? Or is there more similar? Yeah,

[00:26:48] Jamal Monteilh: no, absolutely. So, I mean, obviously, you know, one of the most important things we talk about in all of our pitches across, um, you know, all the, the markets is time. So we are, we’re constantly talking with donors like, Hey, we’re making a case for, you know, this long term gift.

[00:27:02] Jamal Monteilh: So we speak about that within our pitch and that kind of narrows down. For us donors that can really afford to do this, like they’re having that conversation in the pitch before we get to objection response or before we get to sign up. So that kind of narrows us down to donors that are over 30 across all markets.

[00:27:17] Jamal Monteilh: But, uh, what’s interesting in Mexico is the challenges that sometimes our, our fundraisers face in spaces where they need to speak English. Which is, you know, pretty interesting for this market. And so, you know, they’re like, alright, I, I’ve memorized this pitch, I hope I’m saying the right thing, but signing up.

[00:27:38] Jamal Monteilh: And it’s just, it’s an interesting challenge I think for them to face. Some of them have been doing this a long time, but the market has changed. You know, since Covid in a way where there’s a lot of expats, you know, a lot of people moving to Mexico for three or four months, uh, at a time, and they come in and what’s amazing is the information that people have access to today is I find donors really informed, you know, especially if you ask the right questions, they really know what’s going on.

[00:28:03] Jamal Monteilh: So they could be in Mexico for three or four months and they, they know about the campaigns. That we’re talking about, uh, which I think is really amazing. So we’re not engaging them in like educating them about the issues they know, and we’re just kind of making a, a case for supporting, you know, these local, you know, international local organizations and Mexico.

[00:28:22] Jamal Monteilh: And so, you know, for us that’s been awesome. But it’s definitely a bit of a challenge for our staff in terms of a language barrier here in Mexico, which I think is very interesting.

[00:28:31] Daryl Upsall: That is fascinating. I mean, one you space in some of the markets like Panama or you know, we’re working how, what, what’s the kind of profiles you are looking for in, say, Spain or Panama or Columbia or.

[00:28:45] Juan Edelshein: It’s very similar to what Philippa and Jamal are saying, and we’re, we’re very narrowed by the, the quality of the donor. So we know, like you said, this is the most tested technique, so we know what a good donor is. So we’re looking for that and we’re profiling, so we’re getting an average of maybe 40 years, 40, 48 years old donor.

[00:29:09] Juan Edelshein: So that’s the average. And, uh, mostly women. Were mostly, uh, uh, an extra women, maybe 55, 60% are women and in Latin America to, to add something different because what they said, uh, some, a lot in Latin America, it’s really important, the payment method. So you need to, to have donors that have a credit card that shows that they have a, a higher income and they are, for them, it’s easier to give maybe 15, 20 US dollars a month to, to a charity.

[00:29:42] Juan Edelshein: So that’s our profile. Older people, credit card, and more women than men.

[00:29:49] Daryl Upsall: Okay. Well, we’re coming to the end of our, our session now, and thank you. Fantastic for all you’ve said so far and shared with us. Just one by one briefly, how do you see the future of face-to-face? I’ll start with you, Philipp. Is it positive?

[00:30:03] Filipa Morais: I am super positive. I’m, I’m a super positive person. I’m super pro solution and, and I really think that it’s, uh, it’s very important to have this mindset to, to work on face-to-face this energy. You know, like, let’s do this and starting the day dancing, you know, and, uh, uh, it’s important. Even in our global webinars, we start with a yoga session or some dancing or whatever, just to start with the right energy.

[00:30:28] Filipa Morais: We have a lot of challenges. Definitely, yes. We know we talk about recruitment process, about agency costs. Sometimes it’s, uh, it’s also a, a, a challenge, uh, donor quality sometimes. But still, despite all this challenge, I’m very, very positive because, um, you don’t have any channel that is giving you so much volume as face to face.

[00:30:49] Filipa Morais: This is one of the, the main reason I still, I keep being very positive. Also, you have this human side of face-to-face that you don’t have in another channel. And we like as human beings, after Covid, we were afraid to go into the streets and it was the opposite. It, people were missing this contact. You know, it’s completely, completely different.

[00:31:08] Filipa Morais: Um, and, um. And there is a lot of opportunities, new markets, uh, you have business to business face-to-face that we have in Latin America, and it’s amazing. And maybe we can have that on other markets and maybe also growing face-to-face in-house. I’m a big fan, so, uh, let’s see. Let’s see. I can wait.

[00:31:26] Filipa Morais: Fantastic.

[00:31:27] Daryl Upsall: As positive as ever. You always are. Well.

[00:31:34] Jamal Monteilh: I’m very optimistic about the future of face-to-face as well. Uh, when I hear Felipe speak about the markets that you’re excited to open this year, I think that’s amazing. I think that’s so exciting. I do think that, like, as Juan said before, you know, this is, there’s something powerful about speaking to face to face, I don’t know, another channel where you can actually listen to a donor’s stories before they become a donor where you can share your story stories where organization can say.

[00:32:00] Jamal Monteilh: You’re amazing. You’re awesome. I love what you just said and how you responded to just this one part of our pitch. There’s no other space for that, and that’s such an important human connection I don’t think can be replaced. So as we move into new markets in Nigeria and some of the places you spoke about, I’m just really excited for the future of face-to-face.

[00:32:18] Juan Edelshein: Fantastic final words. You, Juan? I couldn’t agree more. And, and yeah, just to add something up, I think that many people are afraid of new technologies coming and new changes, uh, coming to face-to-face and to everything in the world. And I think that we need, what we need to do is to learn how to use them, how to better ourselves with them, how to improve our teams with them, and.

[00:32:45] Juan Edelshein: Nothing, nothing, nothing can, can replace a, a nice human conversation, talking to someone, explaining them carefully about a beautiful cause and that’s it. Nothing, nothing can replace that. No AI can do that, at least in this.

[00:33:04] Daryl Upsall: Well, on that note, thank you very much. You’ve been fantastic. Thank you for sharing.

[00:33:08] Daryl Upsall: Thank you for your energy, and thank you very much for all the positivity you bring to this channel. Until this event. So thank you and well done. Thank you.

[00:33:17] Juan Edelshein: Thank you all.

[00:33:18] Daryl Upsall: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you everyone.

[00:35:26] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:35:39] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

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This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:00:59] Simon Scriver: This is where I need a theme song. I know. And actually you are, you’re, you’re a theme song person, aren’t you’re a musical, musical theater or just theater? Yeah. Well, it

[00:01:07] Kel Haney: used to be mostly just regular theater. I did, uh, every once in a while, um, develop musicals, but it was always musicals that were things that I’d wanna hear.

[00:01:16] Kel Haney: Um, in my free time. So it was never like very like show toy type musicals. It was always like a little more like rocky folky type thing. So

[00:01:24] Simon Scriver: you’re not into the show tunes?

[00:01:26] Kel Haney: Not really. Um, my husband is, my husband’s an actor. Okay. He is. And my best friend is. So when they’re together. Um, there’s a lot of, um, singing musicals and harmonizing.

[00:01:37] Kel Haney: I’m like, I don’t even know what my life is right now. So,

[00:01:40] Simon Scriver: do you know what I, I always end up getting, talking about musicals on this podcast. I dunno if there’s a high, like the Venn diagram of fundraisers and musical Yeah. Theater

[00:01:48] Kel Haney: kids. Theater kids, theater kids. I mean, I’ve written about that a lot, about the things that are overlapping skills between artists and fundraisers and, um, I really love to train people who are artists to be fundraisers, so I do a lot of that.

[00:02:04] Simon Scriver: That’s funny.

[00:02:04] Kel Haney: Yeah.

[00:02:05] Simon Scriver: Oh, all right. Well, let, let me get into that. But first of all, I have. To do an official kickoff, do it. This is the official start. And hello everyone. Welcome, uh, to the fundraising of our podcast and perhaps you are joining us live on LinkedIn. We’re recording this live on LinkedIn. Um, so do feel free to comment and chime in and chip in and say hello to our guest today.

[00:02:23] Simon Scriver: And we’ve already got some musical fans appearing in the chat.
Yes, love it Eric.

[00:02:28] Simon Scriver: Um, but my name is Simon Scriver. I am the co-founder of Fundraising Everywhere, and I’m your host for the podcast today. Uh, and I have a wonderful guest who’s returning to chat to us, uh, Kel Haney. So nice to see you. Yeah, how are you?

[00:02:39] Simon Scriver: So nice

[00:02:40] Kel Haney: to see you, Simon. I’m doing great. How are you?

[00:02:43] Simon Scriver: I’m great. And we, we’ve had you speak, um, with us before, but we were, for us, this is our, this is our kind of face-to-face and telephone model. Yes. So for anyone who’s watching, we get this, this month in April with, we’re all about face-to-face and telephone and fundraising everywhere.

[00:02:58] Simon Scriver: So we have our face-to-face fundraising conference online on the 23rd of April and our telephone conference on the 24th of April. You can find the details of that in the, in the, uh. Description here, and I’m fundraising neverwhere.com. But this is why I’ve invited Kel back. ’cause Kel is, I mean, I called you jokingly, the queen of curiosity because they’re all, I love that.

[00:03:17] Kel Haney: I’ll take that. You’re these

[00:03:18] Simon Scriver: conversations and these questions and you, you’re a, but you’re a telephone person. I who, who are you, Kel You, how would you classify yourself in the world of fundraising?

[00:03:26] Kel Haney: Yeah, I’d say so. I have my own consulting firm, Haney Consulting. And I’d say that what I do is I help, um, not-for-profits.

[00:03:37] Kel Haney: Work. Um, Lauren says her screen is frozen, so maybe it’s just Lauren. Um, but anyway, what I do is I work specifically with not pro not-for-profits to build and maintain their mid-level donor base, predominantly through five minute phone calls. So the idea being that mid-level needs something specific for them, um, not-for-profits, don’t have the time, energy, resources to take all those folks out for a meal or for a beverage, but they need something more specific than grassroots, segmented emails and, you know, highly curated letter appeals.

[00:04:10] Kel Haney: They need something else. And that’s where five minute phone calls come in. And

[00:04:16] Simon Scriver: would you call yourself a naturally, I mean, naturally do you find these phone calls quite easy? ’cause I mean, especially what, what we’re talking about today is this feeling, this ick feeling. Mm-hmm. I think most, if, if not all fundraisers have felt one time that kind of awkwardness when you’re starting, especially, uh, asking fundraising.

[00:04:32] Simon Scriver: Yeah. But, but actually, I mean, in our world we deal with so many people in terms of board members and volunteers who are so hesitant to have these. Mm-hmm. Fundraising conversations, are you naturally, do you naturally enjoy these or is this something that you’ve had to work on and you, you, you manage?

[00:04:48] Kel Haney: I’m one of the lucky few that naturally enjoys it.

[00:04:51] Kel Haney: Um, but it’s coming from a place I know as you’re just kind of like recoil, like I can’t even believe that. Um, so yeah, I was the young person. Like as a kid, I love to be on the phone. So, and you know, I’m an elder millennial, so I was on the phone and I remember my dad would be my assistant and would like take messages from me while I was doing my homework.

[00:05:09] Kel Haney: ’cause all I wanted to do. Was be on the phone. So in my early twenties, I needed to do something to support myself as a theater director. It won’t come as a surprise to not-for-profit folks, but theater directors, particularly when they’re starting, don’t make much money. So I needed to do something. So I started fundraising over the phone for the theater that I wanted to run someday, and I ended up.

[00:05:32] Kel Haney: Raising personally, roughly $6 million in less than eight years. All in gifts of $2,000 and under, because I was talking about my favorite thing. So I didn’t have a background in fundraising. I didn’t have a background in sales, but I did, like you said, like curiosity is something that’s already always, um, been something that leads me and connecting to others, like that’s what I really love to do.

[00:05:52] Kel Haney: So what I’ve since then done is like reversed engineered why I was able to do that, and that’s what my trainings become. So I work with people with all levels of comfort. And like you said, like my little catch phrase is taking the ick out of the ask. And so we are all just a focus group of one. And that’s the big thing to remember is you can say, Simon, here’s how I would feel comfortable if someone talked to me, or This is what makes me feel comfortable as a fundraiser.

[00:06:22] Kel Haney: And that’s specifically just you. That’s not universal. And I think that’s the hardest thing for us. To continue to remember is like truly what is universal is wanting to connect with others, wanting to be seen, wanting to be heard. And so how can we get over our own obstacles in order to be vulnerable, candid, curious, courageous, even with the other person to a place of, it’s really about how do we like, take care of them and make sure that they feel seen and heard, and that we’re making space for them.

[00:06:55] Kel Haney: So it’s about hosting. I think it’s like we host the calls.

[00:06:59] Simon Scriver: So you, you, you work, you obviously work with lots of different organizations now, and you have some great resources on your website on kel haney.com and, and you’re very vocal on LinkedIn about that stuff, which I love.

[00:07:10] Kel Haney: Yeah.

[00:07:10] Simon Scriver: But in terms of now shifting and working with so many other people, mm-hmm.

[00:07:15] Simon Scriver: Do you find there’s a common theme of what’s holding them back? I mean, I always feel people are held back from the phone and it’s like, what are, what are the main hurdles that people have before they pick up that phone? I.

[00:07:26] Kel Haney: That’s a great question. There’s lots of them. One of them is just being afraid to, like, I like to say, and again, it’s theater speak, but show the seams.

[00:07:35] Kel Haney: Like everybody wants to be perfect. So we all know we can hide behind our laptops, behind our keyboards and be like, I’m gonna perfect the perfect email and then I’m gonna send it off. So it’s about us feeling like. It per perfection and perfection to me also equals armor of like, well, you can’t hurt me.

[00:07:53] Kel Haney: I can’t come across as vulnerable. I can’t fail if I am pursuing perfection. Perfection isn’t possible on these calls, nor is it something we should be pursuing. So I like to say scripts are for actors. They’re not for fundraisers, in my opinion. That doesn’t mean we can’t have specific messaging. I mean, again, what I teach is like very specifically these tent poles of here are like particular moments that you’re gonna reach in the call.

[00:08:20] Kel Haney: Um, but it really is from a place of, um, just having some structure as opposed to a script because how can you, you can’t have a genuine conversation if only one person of the two people in a quote unquote scene has the script. Mm. And

[00:08:37] Simon Scriver: they’re not reading the script. The other person isn’t reading the script.

[00:08:40] Simon Scriver: No,

[00:08:40] Kel Haney: exactly. And if we’re reading a script like, does that mean we’re being ourselves? Mm, no, it doesn’t. It means that we are like a scripted version of ourselves, and we live in such a world that is so curated where we are all marketed to tens of thousands of times a day. We can all sniff it from a mile away when someone is being genuine with us.

[00:09:00] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. When someone is being like too slick or too sleek and too polished. So the big thing I think is getting over the fact that you’re gonna get on these calls, you’re gonna be yourself, you’re going to be vulnerable, and perfection isn’t the goal. And I think that’s the hardest part.

[00:09:15] Simon Scriver: I, I think that’s really important, this idea.

[00:09:17] Simon Scriver: ’cause I think you do see going into phones, people, people are afraid of the unknown. You know, they’re afraid of being put on the spot.
Yeah. Yeah. And

[00:09:25] Simon Scriver: you feel like because you’re representing the organization, you should have the answers to everything. But do you know what the, the three most beautiful words in the English language?

[00:09:32] Simon Scriver: I don’t know

[00:09:33] Kel Haney: exactly when,

[00:09:34] Simon Scriver: when someone says, I don’t know, you’re. Suddenly I have confidence in them that they’re not bullshitting me. Yes, yes. Like suddenly it’s like, but it’s like, I don’t know, but I’ll find out for you and, and, and, exactly. I, I think like no one holds that against you on the phone. If you don’t know something, yeah.

[00:09:48] Simon Scriver: You can go away and it’s almost a reason to follow up with them again.

[00:09:51] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well,

[00:09:54] Simon Scriver: um, so when you’re, when you’re working with these people, uh, or you know, when you’re helping people start picking up the phone mm-hmm. If you are moving them away from script mm-hmm. How do you start to structure their call?

[00:10:05] Simon Scriver: Like what’s, I know there’s a bit, that’s a lot to unpack and we’ve got lots of different organizations listening, but what is that general structure that you’re looking for in the phone call? Especially in the early parts of that phone call that was so nervous about.

[00:10:16] Kel Haney: Yeah, I can, I’ll just go ahead and I’ll just share the four tent poles and you know, you can hop on my website for, but Oh yeah, no, it’s so easy.

[00:10:24] Kel Haney: So basically what I like to think about is that, like to think about this conversation you’re gonna have over the phone as a tent. So, and when I say tent, I don’t mean the time kind that you take camping. I make mean the kind that you might have had a reunion or a graduation or in my case. A more DIY than we anticipated wedding off the coast of Portland, Maine.

[00:10:45] Kel Haney: So this idea that you’ve got a tent, right? And so we can call our community members into conversation with us under this tent. What I love about tents is that they don’t have doors, they don’t have windows. People can come and go. As they please. The other thing I love about tents is that they’re movable.

[00:11:01] Kel Haney: So this conversation right now can be about that spring gala that you’re having, that you’re having trouble selling tickets to, and then you can check in over the summer with your summer campaign or when we get to giving Tuesday year end like or capital campaign that’s coming up, you can move that tent different places.

[00:11:17] Kel Haney: So there’s four tent poles I recommend when you’re on the phone. The first tent pole is the first 15 seconds. So this is when you’re calling the community member further into your organization, like you’re basically building some rapport with them and some trust immediately. So I recommend not just pick up the phone.

[00:11:36] Kel Haney: Ring, ring, ring. Hi, am I speaking with Simon? Hi Simon. My name’s Kel. I’m calling from organization X, Y, Z. How are you today? Is this an okay time to talk? There’s a lot of space there, which I’m inspired by Malcolm Gladwell’s, um, blink. So like we make split, um, second determinations about who we’re talking to and why.

[00:11:54] Kel Haney: So we need to immediately disarm the other person and get them to know I’m talking to somebody directly at this not-for-profit. I’m not talking to, um, I’m not talking to a scammer or a robocaller, even a telemarketer, like I’m talking to somebody. And what I do is I train internal teams and I also build.

[00:12:12] Kel Haney: Part-time teams that work directly for the organization. Hmm. So for me, the secret sauce is getting the people on the phone as closely connected to the organization as possible.
Hmm. So

[00:12:23] Kel Haney: that’s 10 pole number one. Tentpole number two really quickly is the main event, and I misspoke. This is actually where you’re calling the community member further into your, um, conversation with you and your org.

[00:12:35] Kel Haney: So this is a great place to just share any kind of updates. So the kinds of things that you’re putting into newsletters or things that actually, what I love about the phone is we can be a little bit more extemporaneous. Things that maybe we aren’t ready to share. In a press release yet, but we have gotten the okay to whisper campaign about it.

[00:12:52] Kel Haney: We can share what’s coming up. We can share wins. I recommend share sharing. Also just changes in staffing and leadership. I think people who don’t work in the social impact sector have no idea what the turnover is, and we should call them into understand that. Mm. Regardless of what you share, obviously if you’ve got some kind of experiential component that’s the best, like a way that they can engage with your organization, either in real life.

[00:13:16] Kel Haney: Or online, like that’s the best thing to share and invite them to. Is that like

[00:13:19] Simon Scriver: a venue to visit? Is that like a project to visit?

[00:13:22] Kel Haney: Yeah, like, I mean, this works really well. Most of my clients right now are theaters I work with like museums, botanical gardens, other performing arts organizations. Um, it works really well when there’s like something they can go to.

[00:13:35] Kel Haney: It also works really well with grassroots organizations. So like if there’s like a specific local thing that you can connect somebody to, that works really well. I

[00:13:45] Simon Scriver: mean, I mean it’s, it’s news, I suppose it’s news that’s relevant to the organization and them that you’re, that’s why you’re ringing to update them.

[00:13:52] Kel Haney: Exactly. Exactly. And then also in that moment, what I would say is no matter what your final update, and I wouldn’t say, oh, I’ve gotta go through these six things. I would have like maybe four or five and just kind of like pick them out of the air. I like to pretend like. Um, I’m at a booth, like a balloon booth and pulling down one balloon at a time because we don’t wanna overwhelm people.

[00:14:14] Kel Haney: So it’s like we wanna guide them through the call you. It’s not like I must share all these bullet points. Mm-hmm. You see where the conversation is going with them. Mm-hmm. But what’s really important, so Simon, is that the last 10, the last like update that you’re sharing? Intent poll number two needs to be about fundraising.

[00:14:32] Kel Haney: Because your organization should be fundraising all the time, and there should always be some kind of campaign that you are starting, that you are ending, that you’re gearing up for. So what I recommend is just sharing with the community member I. Well, we’re getting geared up for our spring fundraiser.

[00:14:50] Kel Haney: We’re trying to raise $50,000 by the end of June. We’re just getting started. This is, you know, kicking off, starting right now. It’s technically supposed to start April 1st, but I’m getting started now. Mm-hmm. So talking about, and we’ve got a one-to-one match, matches are magic. Mm-hmm. You know, we could do a whole session about that sometime if you want, but, um, it really is about in that moment.

[00:15:14] Kel Haney: Getting them to understand that what is going on, what the update is with your fundraising is just the same as sharing your wins, as sharing invites, as sharing changes in staffing. So there hasn’t been an ask. So you’ll notice that I called tent poll number two, the main event. That’s not the ask.
Hmm.

[00:15:34] Kel Haney: Okay. So the ask is actually Temple number three. So if I’m talking to you and I’m telling you all about this great fundraiser we have coming up, we’re talking about that email that you really responded to, that video we had in there. We’re talking about the new leadership we have, and I’m also saying the other thing that’s going on, Simon, is we do have this fundraiser and I’m telling you about the current fundraising campaign.

[00:15:57] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So I’m just sharing, calling you in to understand that’s what’s happening at the org. Hmm. So then I can say to you. Temple number three. Easy segue into it. Simon, it’s so great to talk to you. I so appreciate you hearing me out about everything that’s going on on our org. Please think about joining us for that event on April 22nd.

[00:16:17] Kel Haney: Um, but also, you know, we are just starting this fundraiser. You were so great. The end of the calendar year. You did a $750 donation to us. In December, we still appreciate it. Um, as I mentioned, all of our gifts right now are matched one-to-one with the spring campaign, so I’m just gonna shoot for the moon and see if there’s a world in which you would do a gift of a thousand dollars with me today as part of our spring campaign.

[00:16:42] Simon Scriver: I, I love your referencing kind of their past activity. Yes. You know, that it really, it really takes the spams mm-hmm. Out of the calls, you know, like, it feels like you are just calling Kel, like you’re not calling everyone today, you’ve decided to pick up the phone and call Cal, and that’s really what you’re trying to get across.

[00:17:00] Kel Haney: Yeah. And when the CRMs are. Customer relationship manager, like when your notes are really clear, like just, and again, another thing that happens is people fall into the trap of spending five minutes looking at somebody’s account. You don’t need five minutes, but as you get comfortable, you should take 30 seconds or a minute just to like.

[00:17:17] Kel Haney: See if they have a spouse, see if they have a nickname, see what their last, what their giving history has been. Again, if there’s an experiential component, have they been to the venue lately? Just have that at the top of your mind slash they’re not looking at you. So you can, as you’re talking to them, also be looking, reminding yourself of what’s going on in their CRM in the moment, and like specificity really is key.

[00:17:40] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So that’s the other thing I watch people really afraid. So many times I work with organizations, they don’t even know how much they’re trying to fundraise.
Let alone

[00:17:49] Kel Haney: what they should be asking of this individual person. So I see that a whole lot and whenever I’m talking to a client about people that they’re calling and they’ll say, oh, I’ve got this lapse donor, or this $750 donor, and the first thing I say, Simon, is, what is their name?

[00:18:06] Kel Haney: Like, what’s their name? Like let’s refer to this person by their name. Because yeah, it’s all about making it as catered to the person as possible. And that gets hard sometimes, especially for people who’ve built their careers in the social impact sector. ’cause most people came up first. Like just basically, I.

[00:18:22] Kel Haney: You know, doing all of the data work. And so like mm-hmm. There’s like a real data driven way of looking at all of this that is much more, um, quantitative instead of qualitative. And so there really is like making sure we’re figuring out how to build that muscle as well. That it’s really like, how do we make this as personal, as specific, as hospitable to the individual as possible?

[00:18:44] Kel Haney: That’s,

[00:18:45] Simon Scriver: that’s really interesting. I think, I think some people. Struggle with where it sits on the scale between like an informal call versus a very formal call. Mm-hmm. And I’ve heard, you know, when some people struggle, especially when they’re starting. It can sound very much like a bank or a credit card that’s phoning.

[00:19:00] Simon Scriver: Do you know, and I know we’re obviously trying to move away from that, but I know there’s still that fear sometimes. You know, I, I thought it when you said the phrase, um, shooting for the shoot for the moon.
Yeah. You know, in

[00:19:11] Simon Scriver: your ass. And I, and I can just picture some board members kind of recoiling a bit at that thinking, ooh, that, you know, is this gonna upset the doctors on our database and stuff like that.

[00:19:21] Simon Scriver: What’s your, what’s your thoughts on that?

[00:19:22] Kel Haney: Yeah, I mean, my thought is that you’re trying to build a. Personal relationships as possible. And I find that people, uh, really do recoil when we are a little too, um, buttoned up with ’em when they’re, we’re a little too business. We’re a little too professional. Um, I’m American, so that’s a whole other I.

[00:19:42] Kel Haney: You know, like cultural situation. But I do think finding the way to feel, I want you to feel like you’re calling, um, an acquaintance that you’re calling somebody that you might not be really close to, but somebody that you are close to. Do is close to that person. Mm-hmm. I want it to feel like a synchronistic moment of you’re at the farmer’s market and you just end up talking to the person who’s behind you in line, or you know you’re at an arts event and you end up talking to the person sitting next to you.

[00:20:12] Kel Haney: Hmm. So it’s not so informal, like you’re talking to you’re best friend or someone in your family, but at the same time there, I think there should be a warmth and a personality that echoes how you would be if you met somebody at a party.

[00:20:25] Simon Scriver: I find, I find like the neighbor analogy is quite a good one. Great.

[00:20:28] Simon Scriver: You kind got, that neighbor is great. Again, that shared community thing. But yes. I love that you, you’d be cautious about what you say to them. Well, some, sometimes not.
[00:20:35] Kel Haney: Yeah. No, I mean that can get, that can get, that can get complicated. I mean, I would say maybe even more to the neighbors. It’s like you’ve got.

[00:20:43] Kel Haney: Um, some like shared interest and passion with this person, and I think that’s to remember, and I, I don’t recommend that we’re cold calling anybody that isn’t already connected to our organization. It’s too much time, money and resources to be on these calls to like, I think to make it a cold call. Like I really recommend that once somebody already has some kind of relationship with your organization, is when you’re making these calls,

[00:21:07] Simon Scriver: well, well, let’s take a step back that, but first of all I wanna say ’cause because what I want is people who are listening to this and watching this.

[00:21:12] Simon Scriver: To con to to end this and know exactly what they’re doing next. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the first things I’m gonna tell them to do is, as soon as this, uh, recording finishes, you’re gonna go to kel haney.com. Yeah. Um, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna download these resources. ’cause there there’s some really good stuff that’s gonna help people start that.

[00:21:28] Simon Scriver: You’re also gonna book your ticket to the telephone fundraising conference, which is happening, uh, at fundraising of red.com on the 24th of April. Um, and the face-to-face fundraising conference, which is happening on the 23rd of April, that’s. Two virtual events, which you can find at fundraisingeverywhere.com.

[00:21:41] Simon Scriver: So you’re gonna try all of that. But then Kel, you’re talking about data there. Who, who’s the first person that someone listening to this is gonna pick up the phone? Who is, who is the person that’s most likely gonna respond to us and engage with us on our database?

[00:21:55] Kel Haney: The most likely is someone who gave around this time last year.

[00:21:59] Kel Haney: So start there. And then

[00:22:00] Simon Scriver: I, I love, it’s so rare in fundraising you get an answer, like a clear answer. It was amazing.

[00:22:06] Kel Haney: I’ve been doing it, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. Like I, I, I really have the, the data and the experience. So I’d say start, I mean, part of it is that if someone already has the habit of giving to your org and giving it to your org this time of year.

[00:22:19] Kel Haney: Check in with them first. Um, after that I would say check in, like givers give. So I would say check in with anyone who you thought was going to give potentially with your year end campaign or whenever your last campaign was, and they didn’t give check in with them. Tell them you missed them around here.

[00:22:37] Kel Haney: Tell them like how much you’ve appreciated their, their support. Be specific about the amount the last time they gave. Ask them, you know, curiosity. Are they opening the emails? Are they, do they know what’s going on? It doesn’t look like they’ve attended an event. Like, are they still in the area? Are they not?

[00:22:53] Kel Haney: What, what’s going on with them? Mm. So the second people are people who, that you anticipated were gonna give in the last year and who didn’t. Um, and then after that, I would say anyone who has recently engaged with your org, who’s new. Or new-ish.

[00:23:08] Simon Scriver: Hmm. I, I love you because you throw out so many questions that you could ask these donors, and I feel like, because I think that’s gonna be most people’s fearing question coming outta this is, what do I say initially?

[00:23:20] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm. But I mean, the way you kind of talk about that call structure, it sounds very much like, almost like a feedback call. With perhaps an ask Yeah. Coming later. But you are, you are, you are going in, you’re asking questions, why did you make this donation? Um, why did you come to the event last year? What did you think this, how has your experience been?

[00:23:37] Simon Scriver: Yeah. It’s that kind of fact finding mission, isn’t it? Which I, yeah, for me really takes the fear outta it. Like that’s what got me. Into telephone run for fundraising and enjoy it was realizing I wasn’t asking for money. I was asking about them and then finding out where they fit with us.

[00:23:53] Kel Haney: Exactly.

[00:23:54] Simon Scriver: You are the, you are the queen of curiosity, aren’t you?

[00:23:56] Simon Scriver: You are. Thank you.

[00:23:57] Kel Haney: I try to be, I will say that with that first 15 seconds, I do think it’s important to share with that person that they gave, you’d love to give them, get them more involved. You’re getting ready to start your spring fundraiser, but first, and for. Foremost, ask the curious questions. Hmm. So that you’re setting up the moment that like, yes, it can be both.

[00:24:17] Kel Haney: There can be a soft ask in addition to these curious questions, but I think it’s really important to be transparent about that in the first 15 seconds so the person doesn’t feel bait and switch of, oh, I thought you were just calling like with questions. Yeah. And now you’re asking like, that’s icky. So instead it’s just to say, yeah, fundraising is part of what we do.

[00:24:36] Kel Haney: You did this amount. We’re gonna have our spring event. We’d love to get you more involved. I also am curious about X, Y, Z, and then to your point about who you should call before, even those metrics I mentioned, I think anybody in your community that you’re curious about what’s going on with them of, oh, even if it’s a thank you, even if it’s a, we just got a $10,000 check and we have no idea why.

[00:24:58] Kel Haney: Call that person, thank them. Ask them why so, or why did that person disappear? Or, you know, why did that person not attend that event? Or why hasn’t that person responded to your emails? Who usually does? So whom, whomever that person is, I recommend today, or it’s the end of your workday tomorrow. Just saying, okay, I’m gonna take even half an hour and I’m gonna make six calls to those six people that I have curious questions about what’s going on with them, um, and their relationship to our organization.

[00:25:29] Simon Scriver: So say you make these six calls, say you make a number of calls. I mean, we all know one of the, one of the difficult things about fundraising is statistically the majority of of things are gonna end in a no, you know, maybe, and not yet. If, if we wanna be positive about it. How, how do you approach that, Kyle?

[00:25:45] Simon Scriver: How do you stay in that positive mindset? Sure. How do you make sure the last call doesn’t impact the next call? Are there any tips for that? Because I know people, we really do absorb this sometimes. Yeah. Especially if we’re not used to that. Direct conversation rejection.

[00:25:58] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I think part of it, going back a step is.

[00:26:04] Kel Haney: The mindset of a no being a gift. Like I, what we need to do is remember that anything somebody is sharing with us is them being vulnerable, them sharing things they don’t need to share with us. So I think what happens a lot with fundraisers is they’re like so looking for the yes. That they’re not aware of what is the yes or the maybe or the, not now, but later in the no.

[00:26:28] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So to learn a little bit more. So, for instance, I have a client that talked to somebody on the phone who said, you know what? I love your organization, but we’re prioritizing travel this year, so we’re not gonna get involved. And the fundraiser said, thank you very much for letting me know, and hung up the phone.

[00:26:45] Kel Haney: So the fundraiser thought they were being polite and like backing off, but what they really did was turn that from a relationship building opportunity to a transaction. As soon as that person said, not now. They hung up the phone as opposed to saying, oh, thank you for being so candid. I’m so curious.

[00:27:03] Kel Haney: Where are you going? Yeah, like, I’d love to know where you’re going. Oh, I’ve been there. Or that’s on my list. And then you’re building that relationship, writing a couple of notes and you don’t know. I still would say, well, if things change or if you do feel like you have the resources, after all, we do have this one-to-one match.

[00:27:19] Kel Haney: It’s running through June 30th, like you know where to find us. I’ll put it in an email just so you have it. And you wanna, what you wanna always do, and this is intent poll number four, however the call is ending, is you wanna always like tell them when they’re gonna hear from the organization again. So ideally, and this is to the person who asked how to keep prospects engaged.

[00:27:39] Kel Haney: After five minute calls, they may fizzle out. Is that like there’s an accountability for. When is your organization gonna reach out again? So whether that’s double checking their email to make sure you’ve got the right email, or you’re saying, I know giving Tuesday end of calendar year, I will be making these calls again, so you might not hear from me for another.

[00:27:58] Kel Haney: 10 months, but, or I guess not 10 months, whatever that is, like eight months. But you will hear from me in eight months and in the meantime, here’s how to stay connected. So that’s a good way to keep both the organization, the fundraiser accountable and also let the community member know that just because it’s no for now, like we are still looking to build community with them, whether it is a yes.

[00:28:19] Kel Haney: Today or not. So that’s, that’s the larger way of like opening up, teasing out the no to find out what’s behind the No. How can we build relationship even in the No, and I mean, don’t get me wrong, when you’re talking about that rejection or when the calls are hard or when our nervous system is engaged, I mean, I definitely had times.

[00:28:38] Kel Haney: Like when I was doing this myself, particularly my first fundraising room was kind of a boiler room. Glen Gary coffee is foreclosure circumstance, and there were moments I would go cry in the bathroom like that that happened. So I would say like, try to not let yourself get to that point. So, mm-hmm. If you’re feeling your nervous system is engaged, get up from your desk.

[00:28:58] Kel Haney: Like take a break, walk outside. If you work from home like I do a lot of the time, pet the animal. If you have one, get yourself like the beverage, you know, the coffee you wanna drink, like take a break. It’s like fundraising is hard and it’s vulnerable, and we have to be kind to ourselves in it. So if you start feeling like it’s.

[00:29:17] Kel Haney: Starting to weigh on you. Like take that break before you get to that point that you, you know, are really emotionally engaged in that

[00:29:24] Simon Scriver: you need, you need like a bat phone number that people can call you up and you give them like that five minute pep talk. I think that,

[00:29:29] Kel Haney: yeah, well just imagine ’em on your shoulders, folks.

[00:29:32] Kel Haney: Like, I mean, I really love this and I really know that. Connecting one-on-one micro connections is what we need more than ever right now. Mm-hmm. And my goal is that both people, the fundraiser and the community member hang up the phone feeling better than they did when they picked it up. That’s truly my goal with these calls.

[00:29:49] Kel Haney: So.

[00:29:50] Simon Scriver: Well, I really, I really love what you’re, the way you’re framing it there that it’s part of this bigger journey. Do you know? And I think that is the big difference. Yeah. Like the, the, the times that I’ve loved telephone fundraising is where you’re seeing it as a conversation. You’re seeing about what’s next and it’s.

[00:30:04] Simon Scriver: It’s like you’re on this journey together because you’ve got a shared mission, really. A shared, shared values, I guess. So moving away from that transaction thinking I think, I think does really help, um, take that ick out of it. I, I’m conscious about a, a timeout. Mm-hmm. And question here from someone who’s talking about people.

[00:30:21] Simon Scriver: Keeping people engaged for those longer calls. I mean, I suppose if you’re getting into a five minute call and you’re having these conversations, they’re relatively engaged anyway, but do you have any general tips about what really keeps people engaged? You know, saying their name as part of the conversation, anything, any other quick wins that you find work for you?

[00:30:38] Kel Haney: I would say definitely share, saying their names a hundred percent. I actually recommend Erin on being a little too informal and using their first name instead of their last name if you call, you know. I just think that given where we’re going, I think that’s how we’re relating to each other more. So definitely sharing their names, um, sharing back what you’re hearing from them.

[00:30:58] Kel Haney: So if there’s a moment and you’re not quite sure where to go next in the call, just to like by yourself, a little bit more brain time, repeating back, which you’re hearing from them, I think that’s really helpful. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think the other thing is just. Sharing, given circumstances. So the given circumstance can be as simple as I have to say, this is the part of the call that makes me then most nervous, or, being on these calls isn’t my favorite part of my job, but this is what I love.

[00:31:25] Kel Haney: Like, I get a little nervous or you know, Hey, I know this is a, a hard time for us to be having these con conversations and the uncertainty in the world like you. Like that can be from like major world events. Down to just what’s going on with you in that day. Sharing given circumstances helps a lot, and it also helps to continue to go back to always knowing what your goals are for your organization.

[00:31:49] Kel Haney: That engages not just people’s like warm and fuzzy oxytocin, but they’re get it done dopamine. If they know you are just starting a fundraiser, if they know you’re about to pass your 25% marker, your 50%, your 70 or 80 or 90% and sharing, hmm. Specific numbers and going back to totally hear you if this is not for now, but here’s our given circumstances, we’re trying to raise X amount by Y date or Z away for now.

[00:32:16] Kel Haney: You know, here’s the amount I’d love to ask from you. So always calling back to the why, like your personal why about why you love this organization so much, and then the specific why of why this support is particularly impactful right now.

[00:32:31] Simon Scriver: I find, I find it very helpful talking to you, Kel. You do kind of nice you, you name, you name stuff, which I find really useful.

[00:32:37] Simon Scriver: And I will say to anyone watching I’m, I’m gonna have to start to wrap up. Unfortunately we’re running, but anyone who’s listening or watching do go to Kel haney.com. Kel haney.com. Mm-hmm. And there is, um, two free guides straight away. Eight phrases not to use in fundraising and five tips for building your mid-level donor relationships.

[00:32:54] Simon Scriver: But Kel is very active on LinkedIn, is often sharing. Yep. Stuff about this conversation, about developing this and, and really, you know, you give me and, and, and I think others confidence in it just by demystifying it a little bit. It seems so mysterious sometimes and, and there’s so much that could happen and could go wrong, but actually whenever you speak about it, it just sounds quite straightforward, you know, and, and almost we’re overthinking it.

[00:33:16] Simon Scriver: So I appreciate that. Yeah.

[00:33:17] Kel Haney: Thank you Simon, and your questions were very curious and, and I really appreciate it though.

[00:33:22] Simon Scriver: King of curiosity. Yeah. Uh, what, what else are you buzzing about at the moment on LinkedIn and everything? What, what else are you trying to get out there? What else?

[00:33:29] Kel Haney: Oh, you know, I think, um, at the moment I am really focused on, I’m, I’m on a whole bunch of podcasts right now, which is really great.

[00:33:37] Kel Haney: Yeah. Um, and I think the big thing is I’m really talking a little bit more. Specifically to theater organizations right now as they’re planning next year, as they’re planning next year’s budget to say like, don’t give up on the subscriber and membership model. I wrote about that a couple of weeks ago, or I guess a week ago, and I have got a client that actually sold out their subscriptions this year, which is like, it’s really possible to be able to engage, especially with performing arts.

[00:34:03] Kel Haney: In that way, that like that people will come on and they will sign up for multiple events. So that’s something I’m thinking about a whole lot right now.

[00:34:11] Simon Scriver: Amazing. Good stuff and keep up, keep up the theater work. Thank you. Um, and so yeah, everyone please do check out, uh, Kel’s work and what Kel’s up to. And from our point of view, remember here at Fundraising Everett, we are all about face-to-face and telephone fundraising this month, um, for the most part anyway.

[00:34:26] Simon Scriver: Um, so you will find our face-to-face fundraising conferences happening online on. 23rd of April and our telephone fundraising conferences happening online on the 24th of April. And you will find some, uh, links to that coming up or in the description, uh, of this. Um, but please do join us, but we’ll have other lots of other experts, uh, like Kel diving deep into this.

[00:34:45] Simon Scriver: And you can still find, um, uh, Cal’s last session with us on, on the Demand Library. Um, so Kel, we’re gonna have to have you back on some more. Off in the future. I love that com, but I always enjoy talking to you, so thank you so much for your time and, and I hope you have a, a lovely rest of your morning over there in the States.

[00:35:00] Kel Haney: Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here.

[00:35:03] Simon Scriver: Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Thank you all for watching if you join us live, um, I am Simon Scriber from fundraising red.com. Please do check out fundraising ever.com for the face-to-face conference and the telephone conference and for everything else we have coming up, uh, and get in touch if you ever wanna chat anything.

[00:35:19] Simon Scriver: But to all of you, I’m very grateful to be here. Lovely to speak to you all today and have a good day.

[00:35:26] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:35:39] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

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This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:01:00] Simon Scriver: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Uh, my name is Simon Scriver. I’m one of the co founders of Fundraising Everywhere. You’re very welcome joining me today. It’s good to have you. Um, and today we have a lovely episode because we are focusing spotlighting.

[00:01:17] Simon Scriver: Uh, one of our members, this is our kind of member spotlight, uh, and someone that we at Fundraising Everywhere have been so happy to have, uh, as part of the family. Uh, I don’t know, is that a bit much, Sarah, to introduce you as part of the family? How do you, how do you view your relationship with Fundraising Everywhere?

[00:01:32] Simon Scriver: Because we love you. But. I don’t know if you just kind of, are we just that annoying email you get sometimes? What’s your relationship to us?

[00:01:40] Sarah Shooter: Gosh, you’re not annoying in the slightest bit. No, I’m really flattered to be described as family. It’s really lovely. I think I discovered you guys during lockdown and you were an absolute godsend.

[00:01:50] Sarah Shooter: And my membership to Fundraising Everywhere has been the one constant that I’ve absolutely being adamant that we’re going to keep up. Um, very grateful that I’m here at Theatre Hall Workfield. They’ll pay for it for me as well, which is great for me to be part of. But no, yeah, flattered to be talked about as family because you guys are, um, so good at what you do.

[00:02:08] Sarah Shooter: Um, and it’s been so helpful and engaging to be part of everything that you’ve been doing.

[00:02:13] Simon Scriver: Well, I mean, we, I think we just kind of connect people and I think like it is people like you that have made it because you’ve been at members sessions and you’ve been at conferences and you’ve Your thoughts and you’ve been engaged.

[00:02:24] Simon Scriver: And I think that’s where the community is really built is from people like you. So I’m so glad that you’ve, you’ve allowed us some time to chat with you and understand, uh, I guess, I suppose your journey as a fundraiser, I’m curious to hear and how it’s going for you out there at the moment, but I guess just to get people up to speed.

[00:02:41] Simon Scriver: Your position, your current position, you’re Head of Development at Theatre Royal Wakefield, is that right? Theatre Royal Wakefield, what is your organisation?

[00:02:50] Sarah Shooter: Yeah, no, that’s correct. Um, yeah, we’re a small, um, regional theatre, um, for people who don’t know where Wakefield is, it’s in West Yorkshire in the north of England, um, we’re in a relatively Um, classed as a relatively deprived socioeconomic area, um, but we are the cultural venue that sits proudly and have done for the last 130 years.

[00:03:11] Sarah Shooter: We’re an old, um, Victorian theatre. We’re beautiful. We’re a very chocolate moxie type theatre, um, but yeah, so that’s what we are here, um, up in Yorkshire, um, and we’re very proud of the, the role that we play in our local community. We aren’t just some theatre, commercial theatre that puts, um, theatre on stage.

[00:03:28] Sarah Shooter: We do, um, So much more. And that’s why I’m here as a fundraiser. It’s all that extra work we’re doing with our wider community to support them and engage them that gets me up on a morning and makes me really happy to be here for seven years, which I think is just about the longest job I’ve ever had. Now.

[00:03:44] Sarah Shooter: I think we’ve got coming up

[00:03:45] Simon Scriver: to that. You don’t have the seven year itch there, but yeah, I mean, as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been there and you’ve achieved some great things in the last few years. But I. Let’s start with your, because I love a good fundraiser origin story. What is your, what is your fundraiser origin story?

[00:04:01] Simon Scriver: Did you fall into or what, how are you a fundraiser?

[00:04:06] Sarah Shooter: Kind of fell into it, but I fell into it really early on in my career. So I, Um, got a job in London, um, years ago, probably about 30 years ago now, slightly terrifying, um, working for a voluntary resource council, um, and ended up, um, advising people on how to write funding bids, slightly scarily at that point had never written a funding bid, so I’m not quite sure how I ended up with that job, um, but stayed around for four or five years, had great success with it, discovered actually I had a bit of a talent and a bit of an interest in it.

[00:04:40] Sarah Shooter: and really enjoyed that, um, enthusiasm I could get from the communities I was working with. I’ve always had a massive passion for, um, different charities and working in the charity sector and I kind of moved my way around. I worked for, um, as it was then an LGBT centre in London, then I worked for a women’s centre in London.

[00:05:01] Sarah Shooter: Not always as a sole fundraiser, but very much with some element of fundraising within my job. Quite often within those roles, supporting other people to um, fundraise. Um, then kind of moved back up north, um, got a job at the archive service, planned to stay there for, I think it was six months and about 10 years later I left.

[00:05:21] Sarah Shooter: Um, having honed my skills in community engagement and fundraising and then ended up back here in Wakefield. And I say back because Wakefield says she’s the first stage I ever performed on with my ballet school. Um, And I was in, we did a ballet about the seasons, um, when I was about 11. So it’s a really lovely full, sort of full circle story of coming back here.

[00:05:45] Sarah Shooter: And this is actually the first job I ever got as a full time fundraiser. And so we’ve been right across, so yeah.

[00:05:51] Simon Scriver: Have you got a performance vibe in you? Like, is that what’s drawing you to a theatre, working for a theatre, or is it just a coincidence?

[00:06:00] Sarah Shooter: I, um, did ballet and various other things as a child and, um, loved it and stuff, but I never actually wanted to be front and centre on a stage.

[00:06:11] Sarah Shooter: But I’ve always loved the performing arts, so I was really, really excited about being able to come back and work in a theatre. I dabbled, I had my, as I call it, my midlife crisis phase where I went and worked backstage and did some costume and tech and box office and various other things so it was really good fun to come back as, um, into the theatre to be able to do that.

[00:06:32] Simon Scriver: I mean, it probably serves you well as a fundraiser, like having experienced some of those other roles and seeing it from lots of different angles, because, you know, fundraising is like you’re connecting so many different people in areas like that’s kind of all you’re doing all the time is connecting people.

[00:06:45] Simon Scriver: So I think having done it, it probably, it’s probably helped you, but you, you know, you clearly got a talent for it and you clearly love it, which I think is one of the things I like about you is you always kind of, you light up when you talk about fundraising. What, what is the talent that makes you good at fundraising?

[00:07:00] Simon Scriver: Like what is, what do you think the skill is that you need to be a good fundraiser?

[00:07:06] Sarah Shooter: Oh, I don’t know. I think, I think I’m quite confident in terms of asking people for money, which I might, it might sound a bit daft in fundraising, but actually I’m not. Because I’ve always been really lucky and I’ve worked in organizations where I’ve actually cared about what they were doing.

[00:07:21] Sarah Shooter: I’ve always found that ability to talk to people about what I do and to be able to do it and that kind of no holds barred kind of approach I think in terms of just being able to just do it. I mean I presented an award at our business awards in Whitefield last year and I was invited onto the stage by um, a local minor celebrity who introduced me as the person who could pick a pocket at a nudist camp.

[00:07:47] Sarah Shooter: Would like massive compliments. Is it

[00:07:54] Simon Scriver: just from conversation? Is it just because, because I know what you mean, what you say, because you do get a lot of people in fundraising even, uh, I don’t want to say afraid to ask, but clearly don’t like the, uh, you know, like it’s, they’ll do anything at all costs to avoid it, which is obviously difficult as a fundraiser.

[00:08:11] Simon Scriver: But is it, I find when, when people kind of reposition how they think about it, you know, that it’s not imposing and it’s not pickpocketing, like how do you, how do you frame it in your mind when you’re having these conversations? Like what, what, what motivates you to do it as opposed to dreading it?

[00:08:29] Sarah Shooter: I think I frame it as a conversation.

[00:08:31] Sarah Shooter: I think that’s a really good way of doing it. I’m having a conversation with somebody and very much like to think it as. I’m not necessarily asking that person there and then for money, I’m asking that person to support my organization. And I’m trying to find out different ways that that person can do it.

[00:08:46] Sarah Shooter: And I think in my head, it’s about having a friendly conversation over a cup of tea. I mean, chatting to people, finding out what’s going on in their lives. And that. I think the thing I’ve learned over the last seven years is the real, real thing is about building those relationships and about understanding and treating each person as a person and not kind of, sometimes you, you learn something or somebody teaches you something and, and you, you go, right, well, I’ll start at a and I’ll work my way through to BI mean, and then I’ll get some money out of them at the end.

[00:09:15] Sarah Shooter: And I don’t think I approach it like that. I, I find everything on a much more personal level. I’m lucky I work in a re, in a, well, a local theater. in a town while we’re a city. But, um, and it’s very much on that level. And I think that’s my strength, that being able to build those community relationships and those conversations with people and being able to really share a passion for both the performing arts and our local city.

[00:09:41] Sarah Shooter: Um, that desire for that to be the best possible place it can be. I’m not sure I would do as well at some of the big national charities. I’m not sure that’s, that’s what my personality is. I think it’s that being able to make. real, genuine, personal conversations, um, relationships and bumping into people and sometimes that’s a pain.

[00:09:59] Sarah Shooter: Um, living and working in the same place can be quite challenging at times, but there’s also something quite nice about walking down Sainsbury’s and trying to convince somebody to support the theatre all at the same time, you know, shy away from doing it.

[00:10:12] Simon Scriver: I’d say you never switch off, but sometimes you get these unexpected wins in Sainsbury’s or just like on the street.

[00:10:19] Simon Scriver: That’s great. Well, how do you spend your day? Like, what does your job look like these days? Are you networking a lot and having a lot of conversations that way? Are you setting up meetings? How do you spend your time as a fundraiser?

[00:10:32] Sarah Shooter: Um, it’s pretty varied here because I, um, I’m a team of, um, there’s myself and, um, Grace who works alongside me.

[00:10:41] Sarah Shooter: But we work right across the portfolio of fundraising, so I’m responsible for Fundraising events, fundraising, um, Trust and Foundation applications, our corporate scheme, our membership scheme, individual giving, so it can be any one of those things. So just before we were doing this, I had the joy of sitting down and writing an Arts Council application.

[00:11:00] Sarah Shooter: Um, when we finish this, I’m going off to a networking event, um, at a new building that’s just opened in Wakefield, um, to try and see, um, what engagement they’ve got there and what businesses are going to be through the door. So. It’s really varied, um, which presents its own challenges cause you can’t really dedicate yourself into one particular area, but also for the way in which my brain works is really helpful because I like that ability to do lots of different things and be able to swap and change between tasks, but we use the building here as much as we can.

[00:11:31] Sarah Shooter: So we’re in the middle of planning for. Afternoon tea fit for a queen, because we have a show coming about Margaret Thatcher and the queen that’s been touring there. Your Majesty! So that’s going to be a little bit of fun. We’re planning for our gala, our dinner on stage, alongside everything else, so it can be anything from ringing somebody up and asking them if they can do me cream tea or trying to blag some free lights for our gala to writing a fondant bibs.

[00:11:56] Sarah Shooter: I mean,

[00:11:59] Simon Scriver: that’s proper, that’s, I think that’s proper talent. Cause you know, you know, me, I have a soft spot for the small charities and the solo fundraisers who are doing everything because I do think it’s amazing that you’re doing those kinds of grant applications and then you are expected to go network and then you are picking up the phone, you are crafting your Christmas appeal, you’re like juggling all of it.

[00:12:17] Simon Scriver: I know we get a lot of people listening to this who are in a similar situation, you know, where there’s only one or two of them. So I, I guess it would be helpful to understand how you approach prioritization or like how you decide what you do. ’cause I always find in fundraising it’s funny, it’s like it all works.

[00:12:36] Simon Scriver: You know, to some extent every form of fundraising works. And so it’s like your job really is figuring out how to use your 40 hours a week or whatever, and I’m curious how you approach that, like how do you decide where to put your time? Is it very reactive because it’s so much for one or two people to cover?

[00:12:56] Simon Scriver: Or do you, do you plot out your months and year ahead of you on what you’re going to focus on and how do you approach it?

[00:13:03] Sarah Shooter: I’m a real planner. Um, so I sit down every year about November, December time and plan our next financial year. So we work the April to. the March to April sort of financial year and plan out what we’re going to do.

[00:13:17] Sarah Shooter: I spend a lot of time, well I don’t say a lot of time because I don’t have a lot of time, but I spend time looking at where we’ve had our best results as well. So I am, I have information at my fingertips because I have to, to be able to decide whether or not I’m going to spend 10 hours planning a gala or two hours putting a crowd funder online because of that different level of time and that different level of engagement.

[00:13:39] Sarah Shooter: Um, so we, um, as I said, a small team of two. Gracie works with me, also does corporate events and other hires here as well. So we do basically income generation at the theatre, if you see what I mean, it’s slightly wider than theatre. Um, but we’re really clear about what we try to achieve every month, what our priorities are and what our targets are that month, When I first started, it was very reactionary and I just couldn’t manage that.

[00:14:02] Sarah Shooter: And we were missing out on things. We were looking for opportunities and it was really hard to make people understand. The length of time, some of the relationships take to create, as you know, if you’re working with corporates, which I do a lot, I’m not going to have one conversation with them and get them signed up into our corporate scheme within a week, but we might have a result with a local funder within sort of three or four weeks.

[00:14:26] Sarah Shooter: So we do kind of, we try to make sure it’s all planned out. So I understand what I’m achieving in each of the areas. We’ve got quite. Stringent budget. So I know exactly what I need to achieve in each of those areas, but I’m quite lucky that I’m really well supported here. So if something does particularly well and we overachieve, we are allowed to drop something else as well, if you see what I mean, to take time and understand what we’re doing.

[00:14:48] Sarah Shooter: So for me, it’s all about that. I know that doesn’t work for everyone, but that’s the only way I can do it is to really understand what I’m doing each month. Um, to be able to move towards the targets of what we’re doing and to be able to really. Understand the best use of my time.

[00:15:06] Simon Scriver: The flexibility sounds really important, you know, kind of being able to drop something or shift your focus because you, you know, you do get these opportunities that come up.

[00:15:14] Simon Scriver: I mean, you, you, you always try me as being feeling very supported by your organization. I know there’s only so much you can say publicly. So just between me and you, Sarah, well, what is it like in terms of the buying? Cause I know I’ve had that experience or I’ve seen in lots of organizations where, where you are only one or two fundraisers, the rest of the organization really does not get it or not.

[00:15:36] Simon Scriver: You know, not support it. Have you been quite good or is there anything that you do to particularly keep that internal buy in going on?

[00:15:46] Sarah Shooter: On the whole, I think we’re really well supported here. I’m not going to sit here and say every, absolutely everybody’s bought, um, bought into fundraising and everyone gets it.

[00:15:54] Sarah Shooter: There are battles. There are, there are challenges. I’m really lucky that, um, our chief exec is genuinely very supportive and very, very keen, but also really understands the value and the power of fundraising and understands the. additional value that we bring. Um, we, we’ve managed to reframe our membership scheme, which has turned itself around from being, um, before COVID bringing us in 6, 000 pounds, it brought us in 20, 000 pounds this year.

[00:16:21] Sarah Shooter: But we’ve also done a lot of work to make the wider organization understands. additional benefit of that because we’ve got 400 members here but actually they booked more tickets than anybody else who came to the theater. They’ve bought more ice creams, more beer, um, all those sort of add on effects as well.

[00:16:40] Sarah Shooter: So I’ve spent a lot of time in the last two or three years, um, really presenting to team meetings, company meetings, and trying to use real tangible evidence of the difference that we’re making within the fundraising team because Yes, it is about hitting our fundraising target, but we’re a theatre. So actually, we generate our revenue in such a wide range that there’s no point doing fundraising at the detriment of ticket sales for the, for the auditorium, because that’s just not going to help.

[00:17:08] Sarah Shooter: So I have done a lot of work to bring people with us. There are still challenges. There are still some people frontline who struggle, um, and have this concept of, um, me wanting them to ask people for money is something absolutely terrifying and something that they absolutely won’t do. But it is a really supportive place.

[00:17:27] Sarah Shooter: We’re a small team across the board, not just in fundraising. So it is, it’s a lovely place to kind of work. And one of the reasons I’m still here, genuinely one of the reasons I’m here, because I don’t think if I’d have had that level of support in some of the challenging climates we’ve had in fundraising over the last few years, being a fund, so literally a sole fundraiser throughout COVID and having a target change from.

[00:17:50] Sarah Shooter: Um, sort of a hundred thousand pounds to 1. 2 million in a week and a half because they closed us down. Um, it, it would have been impossible to do it without the support of everybody else around us.

[00:18:02] Simon Scriver: It’s been such a difficult number of years for, for the arts, you know, and, and fundraisers in arts. And then on top of that, the fundraising challenges, like you said, like season after season, it feels it can be a very lonely job.

[00:18:14] Simon Scriver: And so, yeah, I mean, I’m glad you have grace shout out to grace. And, uh, and to everyone else, but it’s like, um, it’s good to hear you get support. I’m really interested about your membership there, you know, cause you’ve, you’ve seen like great growth and obviously you’ve been a big believer in this for some time with it.

[00:18:30] Simon Scriver: What has been, you know, that recurring income we know is so important. And like you said, so many other opportunities come from those people. What has your overall approach been a bit like, I don’t know how you summarize it in a few minutes, but. What, what makes membership programs like that grow? What do you bring to them?

[00:18:48] Sarah Shooter: Um, personal touch. And we manage a membership scheme that allows us to do that. Um, I’m hoping at some point in the next few years it’ll get to a point where that’ll become harder and harder because we’ve just got so many people in our membership scheme. But we really have worked really hard to find little ways that we can, like you guys do, have made them part of the family here.

[00:19:09] Sarah Shooter: Um, so that we’ve, um, everything from, um, badges, which have proved unbelievably popular, who knew little badges could be quite so popular, um, to little things like putting envelopes on people’s seats. When everybody came back from COVID we hand, and it took forever, but we hand wrote everybody who was in our membership scheme a letter, attached it to their chair when they came through.

[00:19:31] Sarah Shooter: And we handwrite Christmas cards and various other things. I know for some people listening to this, they’ll be thinking, well, we can’t do that because our membership, we’re a national charity and our membership scheme is two or 3000 people, but our membership scheme isn’t, and our membership scheme works because it’s, it’s able to be personalized because it’s able to be managed and looked after.

[00:19:51] Sarah Shooter: Um, I’m talking to you sat in our studio space and we utilize this space all the time for our members, opening the doors, trying to get them to come to private member events, we. We invite them to, um, dress rehearsals, tech rehearsals, which if you work in the theatre just sound like the most boring thing in the world.

[00:20:09] Sarah Shooter: You forget everybody else doesn’t get an opportunity to do that, or get to go backstage and look at how somebody’s costume is repaired, they don’t get it in there while the director and the choreographer shout at people on the stage and tell them that they need to do it better or differently. So. We’ve just used what we’ve got.

[00:20:25] Sarah Shooter: And I think that’s the strength of our membership scheme. We’ve, we’ve sat down and gone, right. We’ve got a building, we’ve got a theater, we’ve got behind the scenes opportunities. Let’s use it. Let’s do it. Let’s put the time and effort in and it’s paid off. It’s really paid off and we’ve dedicated Grace’s job now pretty much solely to managing the membership scheme because.

[00:20:46] Sarah Shooter: of the amount of money that that scheme is now bringing into the organisation. Because nearly every single one of those people donated to our Christmas campaign. Hopefully they’ll come, they’ll donate to our campaign that’s starting next week. They come to our fundraising events. They sponsored me when I threw myself off and cried.

[00:21:03] Sarah Shooter: The Wakefield Cathedral abseiling in September. Worst decision I’ve ever made as a fundraiser. But I decided it was about time I put my money where my mouth was, having asked lots of people to do things for lots of years. I was like, no, I need to do something, but you know, It

[00:21:15] Simon Scriver: finally pushed you off a build, the flames grew.

[00:21:18] Sarah Shooter: Big mistake. But yeah, no, genuinely, I think that’s the value of our membership scheme is because we’re a small organisation, cos I’m, I’m not quite a sole fundraiser, but as a small team here that we’ve just, we’ve just gone for it and we’ve just got to know our members because we can, and that’s, that’s how it’s worked.

[00:21:36] Simon Scriver: I mean, fair play to like your, your work has really paid off in what you’ve done with the membership and the corporate. And really just that whole again, and we know all these areas of fundraising are interconnected. So I mean, it feels like it’s your challenge ahead of you maintaining that personal connection, that human touch as you get bigger or.

[00:21:55] Simon Scriver: Does your team grow in accordance with it? What, what do you think is the future for you? Like, where are you taking them?

[00:22:00] Sarah Shooter: I mean, I’m lobbying for more staff, whether I get, I don’t know, because I do think we’ve hit a point now where we’re going to do more than we’re doing now that we need more staff.

[00:22:10] Sarah Shooter: There’s no question of that.

[00:22:12] Sarah Shooter: And what that staffing is or feels like there’s lots of varying options. It might not be an expansion to the fundraising team as such. It might be sort of admin and various other things, but I think. For me as a sole fundraiser, the thing that was the kind of light bulb moment that has changed a lot of things is to stop seeing things as siloed.

[00:22:32] Sarah Shooter: Um, I don’t see things as, Oh, today I’m doing corporate today. I’m doing my membership today. I’m doing individual giving because I’m dealing with people in Wakefield and some of those people join my membership scheme, um, because that’s the best thing for them. Other people join my corporate scheme because they can do it through their business, but I didn’t have a Wakefield business.

[00:22:51] Sarah Shooter: They’d probably be an individual donor. So we, I think. The value of being a fundraiser who works across all of it is to be able to understand the interconnections that happen sometimes, and I think sometimes in bigger teams that can be lost, um, that we have that joy here of being able to go to an event and, and.

[00:23:09] Sarah Shooter: Chat to people about everything, everything we’re doing, um, and just have those conversations and work out. I think what I said at the beginning, work out how that person can support us, and in what way that person can support us, rather than thinking, I very much don’t schedule my time as Mondays, Carpets, Tuesdays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, whatever, because It just doesn’t work.

[00:23:29] Simon Scriver: I mean, here, the humans, our donors, our supporters, they don’t, they don’t live in that one box, you know, they’re, they’re across it. So it’s funny, it’s funny because it’s almost like a disadvantage the bigger charities have, isn’t it? As you get bigger, it almost automatically becomes silent because you have your IG, your individual giving department, you have major donors, and it’s a really difficult one, one to tap into.

[00:23:50] Simon Scriver: But Sarah, I know you’re like really active in the community, or correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to know a lot of fundraisers. And obviously you’re active in the Fundraising Everywhere community, you’re involved with the National Arts Fundraising School. I feel like you know a lot of fundraisers.

[00:24:04] Simon Scriver: What is the vibe out there at the moment? Like, what are you, what are you seeing out there? Is it, is it a really hard time for arts fundraisers at the moment? Is there hope? Are you, you’re having a good time? Is it just an exception?

[00:24:20] Sarah Shooter: I think it’s quite mixed around the country really in terms of what people are doing. I think in the arts there’s concern, there’s a lot of changes happening, there’s lots of things, um, moving and changing. Um, personally was quite pleased with the change of government, I’m not gonna lie about that, quite actively happy that we’ve got a Labour government in, but at the same time a new government, whatever that government brings change because everybody wants to put their stamp on things and everybody wants to do everything.

[00:24:45] Sarah Shooter: So there’s been a lot of funds suspended and not open and things like that. So I think it’s. It’s a real challenge. People are nervous and concerned, um, certainly within the arts about individual giving, where that’s going to go, where people’s, um, people have to make decisions now about their money.

[00:25:01] Sarah Shooter: Where’s that money going to go? How do we make us continue to make ourselves relevant? I think we guys all know how important the arts are to, to society in general. How do we have those conversations? Um, And I think, don’t want to speak on behalf of other people, but a few people I’ve been speaking to recently have said they were expecting their worst years to be the first couple of years that we came out of Covid, but actually they weren’t quite as hard as we were expecting.

[00:25:28] Sarah Shooter: They were hard, but not as hard as we were expecting. But quite a few of us are really worried about this financial year, um, really worried about where we’re going because I think things are starting to bite now and things, and things are starting to come tricky, but I’m, I’m generally an optimistic person.

[00:25:46] Sarah Shooter: I’m very much, uh,

[00:25:48] Simon Scriver: so I’m

[00:25:53] Sarah Shooter: hopeful that we’ll, we’ll get our way through it. But I just think as a fundraiser, you have to be, if you’re all doom and gloom and you’re worried about this, that and the other, you can get to get yourself tied in knots. I think we just have to go for it and try and see what happens.

[00:26:05] Simon Scriver: Yeah, it’s, it’s wise words. Yeah, I know. I try to be mocked and that’s why I do like surrounding myself with people like you who are actually doing it and feel good about it. And I’m psyched to do it. Um, Sarah, it’s such a pleasure talking to you, but what, what else are you working on at the moment? Where do, where do we keep up to date with what you’re doing?

[00:26:25] Simon Scriver: Is it? Is it by following, um, Wakefield Theatre or is it by, are you active on LinkedIn? Do you share a lot of what is a fundraiser?

[00:26:33] Sarah Shooter: I’m trying to get more active on LinkedIn. So I’m going to say LinkedIn as a bit of a kick up my backside to kind of get myself doing it. Cause you mentioned earlier, I’m also involved in the National Arts Fundraising School and I’m really excited that I am also working for Blackpool Theatre this year as well.

[00:26:48] Sarah Shooter: They, um, they’ve managed to, to get me four days a week, four days a month. Um, they’re paying the theater here for my time to go and help them. They don’t fundraisers. So I’m working in Blackpool and Lakefield. Um, and I’m also working on some workshops to support the arts fundraisers, um, who are perhaps very, very new to fundraising as well.

[00:27:09] Sarah Shooter: So I’m looking at doing, um, some workshops and things around the country, um, to do that because I’m really keen. on helping as much as is possible. I think I was given a lot of support and help as I came through and as I learned what I needed to do. And I’m really keen to give as much of that back as possible as well.

[00:27:25] Sarah Shooter: So yeah, so keep an eye on LinkedIn. You’re very welcome to follow us on our work field as well, but I think personally, you’ll probably get more. From my LinkedIn profile and it’ll give me the impetus to do it now. I’ve now said it out loud.

[00:27:37] Simon Scriver: You’ll have to share this podcast though. But that’s amazing. I mean, the idea that you’re, you’re traveling around theaters to like input into their fundraisers.

[00:27:45] Simon Scriver: That’s pretty amazing. I could, that’s, I see a future for you, Sarah, like touring the country, ballet and fundraising advice on stage, all these things. What is it about the theatre that draws you, I mean, do you go to a lot of shows? Do you watch a lot of the stuff that they show? Are you allowed?

[00:28:03] Sarah Shooter: Yeah, I come here a lot, which is a bit of a detriment because I think I’m never actually quite switched off, but, um, it’s, to me that’s important, I work in theatre, I can’t fundraise for this theatre if I don’t know what it’s like and I don’t know what’s going on in its walls.

[00:28:16] Sarah Shooter: Um, but I like, I, I really do enjoy live theatre. I was really lucky as a child. It was something that, um, my parents really enjoyed and they took me, um, to go and see a lot of live theatre, um, as I was growing up. So then I convinced the wife as well, who was quite interested in it as well. So we’ve kind of, it’s something we’ve done together, um, as well.

[00:28:36] Sarah Shooter: So yeah, no, I love it. And I’m. Off to see ballet in Leeds next week and then going over back to Blackpool to see Grease in June and various things. Um, anything, anyone who are anywhere, if they want me to come and watch the um, theatre, um, feel free to invite me. I’ll give you some free fundraising advice if you invite me for some free theatre tickets.

[00:28:54] Simon Scriver: That’s a great deal. Next time you’re in Dublin, we’ll have to go see, see a show. They’ve got some good stuff coming up. Grease will be good. I like, I’m a big Grease fan. Yeah,

[00:29:03] Sarah Shooter: Blackpool and Port Lockery doing it together, I think it’s going to be excellent.

[00:29:07] Simon Scriver: Would you ever go in there, because I don’t know, I’m not sure if I’m allowed to publicly say this, but fundraising everywhere, we definitely want to go down the road of musical theatre.

[00:29:16] Simon Scriver: We want to put on some musical, because we’ve got Cam, our membership person, who’s big into it, and more and more of us are into it. I think Wicked got us all into the mind for it. Would you ever perform, Sarah? Are you open to come and see?

[00:29:28] Sarah Shooter: I mean, I’m completely tone deaf, but I’d give it a go. I’m very, very happy to stage the Fundraising Everywhere musical here at the theatre if you want.

[00:29:38] Simon Scriver: No, that’s good. Alright, well, you don’t mind. Um, Sarah, we’re gonna have to wrap up. I could just end up gossiping with you all day. But, um, that’s amazing. I’m just so, I’m so happy to see, um, you know, to hear a bit more from you and actually to learn your origin story. Because that’s one thing I didn’t know is how you, how you got into fundraising.

[00:29:56] Simon Scriver: So it’s been really good. And I’m so grateful that you’ve been able to share so openly with you what you’ve been going through.

[00:30:02] Simon Scriver: but thank you, Sarah, for your time.

[00:30:04] Sarah Shooter: No, thank you for inviting me. It’s been fantastic.

[00:30:07] Simon Scriver: Amazing. And to everyone listening, please do follow Sarah on LinkedIn and keep posted.

[00:30:11] Simon Scriver: And if you are in the neighborhood, uh, do go and catch a show at the theater. Um, and I think that offer for some free fundraising advice for a free show. I think that, I think that’s great. I think we need to push that out more. I need to get some more. Um, but to those of you listening, that is our member spotlight with the amazing Sarah Shooter.

[00:30:27] Simon Scriver: Do please, uh, check them out. And if you have any questions, if you have any needs, as always, get in touch with us through fundraisingeverywhere. com. Um, and of course, check out fundraisingeverywhere. com for details about our membership and all of that. And you can join the community with people like Sarah, um, where we sit around and gossip about musical theater.

[00:30:45] Simon Scriver: Uh, but also we learn about between that. So thank you everyone for your time. Uh, my name is Simon Scriver. This has been the Fundraising Everywhere podcast.

[00:30:59] Alex Aggidis: so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us. Thank you so much. See you next time.

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This transcript was created using AI. If you spot any mistakes, please reach out. Thank you!